F I D O N E W S -- | Vol. 9 No. 26 (29 June 1992) The newsletter of the | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: _ | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS /|oo \ | (415)-863-2739 (_| /_) | FidoNet 1:1/1 _`@/_ \ _ | Internet: | | \ \\ | fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org | (*) | \ )) | |__U__| / \// | Editors: _//|| _\ / | Tom Jennings (_/(_|(____/ | Tim Pozar (jm) | | | Newspapers should have no friends. | -- JOSEPH PULITZER ----------------------------+--------------------------------------- Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international amateur network. Copyright 1992, Fido Software. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews. Electronic Price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . free! Paper price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00US For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Table of Contents 1. EDITORIAL ..................................................... 1 Editorial: Same or less ....................................... 1 2. ARTICLES ...................................................... 3 Netmail and Echomail are Different? ........................... 3 CyberSpace / Virtual Reality Echo ............................. 6 T.O.T.T. - Turn On To Teens BBS and echo ...................... 6 3. LATEST VERSIONS ............................................... 11 Software Versions List ........................................ 11 4. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .......................................... 12 FidoNews 9-26 Page 1 29 Jun 1992 ====================================================================== EDITORIAL ====================================================================== Editorial: Same or less by Tom Jennings (1:1/1) Still remotely editing here on my battery laptop, the FidoNet equivalent of writing by candlelight. The "where does the mail go" problem is apprently a sore spot for a lot of people (I mentioned a month or so back that all mail to and from certain addresses was consistently lost). Another article about it in this issue. The U.S. government is at it again. Those guys (mainly) are sooo funny. This time, the FBI has proposed that digital telephony standards be determined, not by some fool bunch of techies (FCC, industry, etc) but instead by the Department of Justice, who of course are *my* first pick. Yours too? (OK, so I'm getting a bit cynical, ignore me.) Someone at the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) sent me the following (I can't quote in the usual way due to hardware limitations): Subj: FBI Digital Telephony (bill text) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1992 14:54:35 -0500 The following is the latest version of the FBI Digital Telephony Proposal, introduced in May 1992. This version removes the previous language that authorized the FCC to set standards and now places it solely in the hands of the Attorney General. Fines are $10,000/ day for non compliance with services within the public switched network having 18 months to comply and services outisde having three years. The proposal now manadates that the capability for remote government wiretapping must be included into the system. This proposal clearly enhances the ability of the FBI to monitor communications. It takes the unprecendented step of placing control over certification of telecommunications equipment in the hands of the Attorney General and requires that the equipment be constucted to allow government to have the ability to monitor communications from a "government monitoring facility FidoNews 9-26 Page 2 29 Jun 1992 remote from the target facility." All telecommunications users should be concerned by the privacy and security implications of creating systems that have holes for the government or any other knowledgable user to plug into. David Banisar CPSR Washington Office banisar@washofc.cpsr.org Craig Neidorf Concerned Citizen cneidorf@washofc.cpsr.org [Complete text of proposal followed here.] Here we go again. Sigh. The complete text is available from the FidoNews! BBS as filename "FBI", via Wazoo filerequest from 1:1/1 or manual download +1-415-863-2739 HST/V.32. OK, you're spared. From what? A rather angry rant I just spent an hour writing. Actually it was good fun, and probably suitable for another medium. If you're interested in the whole text (with the above text preceding it) filerequest or download (as above) file "RANT-ED". And don't dare you complain to me about it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-26 Page 3 29 Jun 1992 ====================================================================== ARTICLES ====================================================================== Aaron Goldblatt 1:130/405.1 FidoNet 55:400/10.0 WorldNet Is echomail really different from netmail? According to our editor, Tom Jennings, it is; according to Paul Henry (1:221/279) they're the same, and according to POLICY4, they're basically the same. Big deal. Mail is mail. If it gets there nobody cares, and when it gets dropped in the bit bucket it may take months to get noticed. Tom said a while back that netmail and echomail routing schemes are different - they serve different purposes and one should not be fed into the routing stream of the other. Sysops who do, he implied, take their chances. One should simply pass the netmail through the *C system. Fine as far as it goes. If we go on the assumption, for the moment, that netmail and echomail really ARE different and serve different purposes, then the idea of different routing streams is valid. Okay, so now we have two routing streams. Sysops, knowing this, would route their netmail through their NC (or, for regional independants, their RC). Great, as far as it goes. They've sent their mail where they're supposed to, so it's supposed to arrive at its destination, right? Well, almost. Let's take a look at a common segment of the ^aPATH line on much of my inbound echomail: 13/13 396/1 5 124/5125 4115 130/41 48 405 Now let's look at the same type of line gleaned from ^aVIA lines inserted by routers in much of my inbound long-distance netmail. 13/13 396/1 5 124/5125 4115 130/24 405 They look remarkably similar, don't they? The only real difference is that the netmail gets routed from Dean Lachan (124/4115), our local costgate, through Dewey Thiessen (130/24, also our NC), to my bossnode, while the echomail gets routed through 130/41 (Bob Womble) and 130/48 (Frank Kubat), local hubs. Big deal. They're all reliable systems, and the mail usually makes it. But not always. More on that in a moment. FidoNews 9-26 Page 4 29 Jun 1992 So much for inbound mail. Now let's look at outbound mail. When I send long distance netmail, I have two choices: Crash or route. Generally I'll choose to route it, because I have some modicum of faith that my mail will arrive at its destination no later than it would had I sent it Snail. A few weeks ago I wrote a reply to a FidoNews article about the INTERUSER confrence; my reply earned a response from one of the moderators, Daan Van Rooijen (I spelled his name wrong last time). I wrote a reply, and since I didn't have a mailer up at the time, I uploaded it to my bossnode and he sent it for me, through 130/24. So far, so good. Then, last week, I received a note from Daan in the echo that he'd never gotten the mail. Ooh. Bit bucket strikes again. Even Snail isn't that slow. This brings us back to our assumption that netmail schemes are different from echomail schemes. If it is, indeed, the sysop's responsibility to put the mail into the right system, what happens when another sysop up the line puts it into the wrong system? How can I be responsible for my mail getting eaten when I did the right thing? I have no control over how another sysop configures his system - and so why should my mail be a victim of the bit bucket by being put into the wrong stream? If there truly are two different systems to route mail (and nothing I've seen indicates that there really is such), why aren't they properly implemented by the people who are part of them? Most of the software commonly used is up to the job, so why does the mail disappear? The answer may lie in the fallacy that software such as message bouncers and Grunged Message Detectors are always bug-free. Let's make another assumption, one that isn't too far from reality. Let's assume that most local routing systems are fairly reliable and mail doesn't get lost, at least at the net level. Why, then, does it get lost at the (inter)national level, such as my message to Daan? Perhaps the sysops of systems that do (inter)national mail transfers, such as Z1C George Peace at 1:13/13, should take a look at their systems to make sure their automation doesn't occasionally slip up. Software such as message bouncers, Grunged Message Detectors, netmail routers, etc., can have bugs, and mail can get fried because of these bugs. Perhaps instead of software that simply bounces, returns, or deletes bad mail, what we need on the (inter)national level is software that redirects bad or grunged mail to wait for human intervention. As sophisticated as sofware can get, it still can't replace the human judgement call. FidoNews 9-26 Page 5 29 Jun 1992 A perfect example is some echomail I sent recently with a bad datestamp. It was formatted properly and everything, but my system clock was set wrong. At the Zone 1 backbone level, the GMD bounces any mail that has a datestamp of more than 30 days in the past or more than 24 hours in the future. The sysop gets a nice netmail message back about it. Other than the date, though, nothing was wrong with the message. And this brings up my two questions . . . First, why did it go five or six systems up the chain before getting bounced? The netmail I got back was from the GMD at an echomail hub about five systems up from my boss. Presumably, PASCAL, INTERUSER, and POLITICS are fed to other systems by the intervening four nodes, so why did I have to resend the mail after it got that far up to make sure it went okay, because, after all, by resending it, I duped the mail to every system below the node with the GMD. Waste of my time, waste of everybody's money. Maybe what should have happened was my mail should have been put in a special place for the sysop to look at, like a special message editor or something. With special commands. Like ALT-P for "Pass the message through" to send an okay message with a bad datestamp on through, 'cause it's not going to hurt anybody, or ALT-R for "Return to sender" with a netmail message (a predefined text dumpfile) explaining why the mail was being returned, or for really garbaged messages, ALT-K for "Kill it NOW." I'm not saying that I'm sure the GMD, mail routers, or mail bouncers, do have bugs that cause them to kill mail, but it's a possibility. We've all had problems with computers where the only possible explanation was that you weren't sticking your left thumb in your right ear while typing with your big toes. But the software deserves a closer look; SOMETHING is killing the mail, and I doubt it's an Act of God. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- YEAH!! I'm a SysOp!! by Chris Cancilla, 1:366/8 Hi Everyone. I have been in FidoNet for about a year or so now and I wanted to tell everyone something. Did you know that the people in FidoNet are friendly...that's right. I am in about 6 other net works around the country and on most of them the people are OK, but they will still talk about you behind your back. The SysOp's that I have had the good fortune to talk to, either by NetMail, BBS, or voice, have proved to me that this net's SysOp's are the most helpful people around. FidoNews 9-26 Page 6 29 Jun 1992 I have been in Net 366 now for, as I said, about a year. I am getting out of the Air Force on September 1, a few days away, and I need to look for a job, place for my family and I to live, and so forth. Well, I sent a message to the "0" up in Huntsville, Alabama (net 373) and asked a few questions. I got back a slew of information and a few job leads from that alone. I may be also going into the area of Cape Kenedy, so after I write this, I am going to do the same thing to there. This further reinforces the fact the Fido people are helpful. In general, I think that from my experiences on Nets, if the SysOp and the system have integrity; everyone wins!! Thank you for you time..... Chris Cancilla, 1:366/8, Private, Mail-Only, System... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- by Zak Smith, Sysop Sirius Cybernetics BBS, 1:154/736 CyberSpace / Virtual Reality Echo A little less than 2 months ago, another sysop in my local area and myself decided (with the help of a loyal user) to start up a message area dedicated to discussions of CyberSpace and Virtual Reality. Since its creation on 5-5-92, there have been over 85 interesting messages, ranging from the "Gibsonesque" views of CyberSpace to the use of Virtual Reality for training "those guys on aircraft carriers who direct planes." If you would like to pick up this echo, tagged CYBER, send me a netmail message. Polling me once a week or more often would be fine. I have a USR DS here, so speed should not be a problem, and, finally, I send out mail in ZIP format, if you require something else, I can probably coax Squish into doing it. - Zak ---------------------------------------------------------------------- by Jeff McClinton Turn On To Teens, An Echo and BBS With Heart. With all the new BBSs entering FidoNet, it is often hard for users and SysOps to keep up. So many appear and then disappear in a few months time that most of us don't even try. However, in the multitude of BBSs appearing as of late, there are a few which strive to make a difference. These serious boards carry echos with themes of social injustice and other important contemporary issues. They break the rules of BBSing as a hobby and make it into a medium for helping those who need help, fighting for the rights we feel are necessary to fight for, and spreading the information that FidoNews 9-26 Page 7 29 Jun 1992 needs to be spread. One of these boards is T.O.T.T. BBS, located in Fresno, California. It began as a 300 bps system on a Commodore 64 with a single floppy drive, and has grown to a more complete computer system including everything necessary to host its own Backbone echo, of the same name. It operates with a volunteer, unpaid staff and no government or institutional funding. --What is T.O.T.T.? T.O.T.T. is an all-volunteer, non-profit organization which uses telecommunications to help troubled teenagers. The heart of the program is the T.O.T.T. BBS, which is run by several SysOps and specially cleared volunteers. T.O.T.T.'s leader and director is Faye Johnson, known as Ms. Faye on the board and echo. In addition to the BBS, T.O.T.T. publishes a monthly newsletter, hosts the TOTT echo, owns a 24 hour voice line, maintains a large library of books for teens, parents and volunteers, and runs an adult volunteer program. Several non-backbone echoes also originate on the T.O.T.T. BBS, including FOSTER and FOS_CARE, which cover important topics. It also has several public access sections which offer information regarding upcoming classes, workshops, activities, resources, community agencies and their services, pending laws and bills which affect youth, etc. T.O.T.T.'s goals are, as stated in their newsletter, "to encourage teens to feel good about themselves, to accept responsibility for their actions, to reach out to others, and to improve their own communication and social skills at the same time. --What Makes T.O.T.T. so special? Several things go together to make T.O.T.T. into what it is. First of all, the fact that T.O.T.T. is unique in that it is the first BBS used in a custody setting. T.O.T.T. has organized teams of adult volunteers which visit the Fresno County Juvenile Hall three nights a week to work directly with youths who have applied for the program and been accepted. The teens must have maintained acceptable behavior in their units, have been approved by a counselor, and have agreed to give up some free time to participate. During T.O.T.T. sessions, volunteers help the youths learn computer skills, work on articles for the T.O.T.T. Newsletter, and work on creative writing or other skills. The participants also learn to use the T.O.T.T. BBS and the T.O.T.T. echo to discuss their grievances and feelings. Because of these participants, the T.O.T.T. BBS and TOTT echo have a very important rule: Real names, addresses and phone numbers of anyone in the echo may NOT be posted in the echo. * Handles or first names ONLY can be used in messages. * FidoNews 9-26 Page 8 29 Jun 1992 The T.O.T.T. echo provides a non-judgemental and anonymous way for participants to open up about their concerns and feelings. Being able to use an alias allows the participants to say something without the fears of normal conversation. Other users are more likely to let them know that they are not alone, that their opinions mean something and that what they say is important. SysOps who carry the TOTT echo are required to request the TOTT_SYSOP echo, which is used to help SysOps integrate their systems into the program if they wish, and to give information to both new and old SysOps using the TOTT echo. --Conclusion Some participants in the T.O.T.T. program have pasts filled with years of drug abuse, dysfunctional families, low self esteem and poor schooling. There aren't any programs in the world which can 'solve' such problems and make these youths into perfect, happy citizens like some miracle diet plan. T.O.T.T. attempts to plant the seeds of encouragement and proper growth in its participants so they can have some hope for the future. It is this personal touch which can help T.O.T.T. go far. The youths are thought of as people instead of statistics of a society gone wrong. Youths both in the Fresno Juvenile Hall and using BBSs around the country need to know that there are people out there who are willing to listen and help them out. -- Addresses -- Jeff McClinton (SysOp carrying the TOTT and TOTT_SYSOP echos) FidoNet: Ghost *SysOp, 1:129/148.0 CompuServe: 72050,1561 The T.O.T.T. program Faye Johnson, director and moderator of TOTT and TOTT_SYSOP US Mail: 3999 N. Chestnut, #272 Fresno, CA 93726 Voice Phone: (209) 291-4842 (24 hours) BBS Phone: (209) 292-6403 (24 hours, 300-2400 bps) FidoNet: 1:205/80.0 Darcy McConnell, HUB, direct contact for TOTT, TOTT_SYSOP, FOSTER, and FOS_CARE echos FidoNet: 1:204/40.0 300-9600bps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-26 Page 9 29 Jun 1992 * INTERFAITH -- Open-minded religious echo Jason Steck 1:104/424@FidoNet There are many religious echos available in FidoNet. Unfortunately, too many of the available religious echos have come to be synonomous with religious prejudice, bigotry, and hatred. Too often, all we wind up with is yet another echo full of people "screaming" at each other, condemning each other to various version of fiery purgatory, and generally doing nothing productive, edifying, or educational. Indeed, at least one of the worst echos in this regard is frequently advertised in FidoNews as if it offered the pinnacle of Christian thought within its realms. (NOT!) As a reaction to the stridency and prejudice which is often prevelant in the other religious echos, people from several religions and sects gathered together to form the INTERFAITH echo. INTERFAITH is dedicated to the principle of religious open-mindedness and multi-directional religious outreach. Individuals of all religious faiths are encouraged to participate in the conference by focusing on what they are FOR instead of (as is too often the case in other religious conferences) what they are against and/or opposed to. Participants are encouraged to ask questions about the beliefs of others (and, as is inevitable, the basis for those beliefs) and to similarly answer such questions about their own beliefs. In this way, INTERFAITH becomes an "outreach" from many religions to everyone else -- the floor is equally open to all. The only type of material which is NOT allowed is so-called "anti" material. "Anti" material is material which focuses on what one is against or opposed to or is denegrating and/or abusive towards another individual, religious group, or religious viewpoint. Recognizing that a single individual could not possibly be expected to equitably moderate the interests of a diverse collection of religions and sects, INTERFAITH utilizes a unique moderator "panel" which incorporates a representative from each major classification of religious participants. At present, INTERFAITH has such "co-moderators" for four classifications: 1) Catholic Christian Faiths 2) Protestant Christian Faiths 3) Non-traditional Christian Faiths 4) Pagan and Wiccan Traditions In the areas of topic and behavior moderation, all co-moderators have equal authority to moderate the conference. FidoNews 9-26 Page 10 29 Jun 1992 INTERFAITH has been in existance for nearly six months and the participants to date have largely found it to be an extremely open, educational, and no-stress experience. With all the trappings of inter-religion and inter-sectarian rivalry removed or regulated, participants from many differing faiths have felt uniquely free to join INTERFAITH and to discuss openly their own beliefs as well as those of others. Now, we would like to invite the "FidoNet public at large" to come join us in INTERFAITH. The best prerequisite for joining is a curiousity about the beliefs of others and/or the desire to share ones own beliefs with a diverse audience of people who are open to hearing them. As INTERFAITH is not available on the FidoNet backbone (and does not desire to be so), it is available through what we have come to call the "shadow backbone". Several individual systems across the country have agreed to carry INTERFAITH and to make it further available to others in their area. Such a system has been found to work quite well. If you desire to access INTERFAITH for you system, send netmail to Jason Steck at 1:104/424@FidoNet. If there is an INTERFAITH system in your area, you will be directed to that system for a link. If not, a long-distance link will be made available. As part of our desire to expand the coverage of this unique conference, we have even arranged to make a certain number of long-distance delivery links (you don't have to poll for it, it is delivered to you) for those systems who are willing to make it available to other systems in their local area. In short, are you sick of hate-filled, persecutorial religious echos? Come join us in INTERFAITH! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-26 Page 11 29 Jun 1992 ====================================================================== LATEST VERSIONS ====================================================================== Software Versions List Please refer to the article in this issue... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 9-26 Page 12 29 Jun 1992 ====================================================================== FIDONEWS INFORMATION ====================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/1 Internet fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org BBS (415)-863-2739 (9600 HST/V32) (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews Box 77731 San Francisco CA 94107 USA Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. FidoNews is copyright 1992 Fido Software. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and via uucp. PRINTED COPIES mailed may be obtained from Fido Software for $5.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $7.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) BACK ISSUES: Available from the following sources (and possibly others), via filerequest or download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers). Back issues are *NOT* available from FidoNews 1:1/1. FidoNet 1:102/138 (All issues) FidoNet 1:216/21 (All but 18 issues) Internet ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonew/fidonews SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". FidoNews 9-26 Page 13 29 Jun 1992 "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco CA 94107, USA and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------