F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.33 (16-Aug-1993) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | | | FidoNet BBS community | Published by: | | _ | | | / \ | "FidoNews" BBS | | /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: | | | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Internet addresses: | | | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) | | editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies and other boring but important details, | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Wholly Bible Echo........................................... 2 Collecting "FREQ" lists..................................... 4 ARJ vs ZIP -- are we missing the point?..................... 4 ARJ vs ZIP, The Faceoff, PART II........................... 5 Compression Doubletake...................................... 7 TIMES HAVEN'T CHANGED MUCH.................................. 8 Public-Safety Bulletin Board Systems: Filling a need........ 10 An Update from Joe Sysop.................................... 11 A Response to David Stark................................... 13 Subject: WAKE UP FIDO....................................... 15 STATUS REPORT ON THE VENDINFO PROJECT....................... 15 Subject: Moderators(?)...................................... 17 Subject: Lap Times (tm)..................................... 18 Subject: Standards.......................................... 19 FREE ONLINE ACCESS TO STATE LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION......... 20 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 22 FidoNews 10-33 Page: 2 16 Aug 1993 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== First of all, a brief apology. A article appeared last week accredited to Mr. Clay Tinsley. It seems the the article was written by someone else in response to Mr. Tinsley's article of the previous week. His name was quoted in the article, and as a result, ended up in the author spot. He did not, in fact, write the article. He wrote the part that was quoted. We do not know who wrote the article. (Got all that? it is perfectly clear you see ... ) Speaking of standards, there is a document called ARTSPEC.DOC. It outlines the format for Fidonews articles. No-one ever follows it, but it does help to prevent the above sort of thing. When a piece comes in for the snooze that is not formated to specification, we can and do simply reformat it. However, on ocassion it will contain great sets of tables laid out in columns too wide. That presents us with a bit of a dilemma. Reformating a paragraph of written material does not really change the meaning; reformating a table ussually does. Please note that column 72 is the limit for articles. Please do not submit tables wider than 72 columns. Anyway, on to the news. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Wholly Bible Echo By Mark Wilson 1:379/1107 Wholly_Bible Echo About the first week of July, a new Bible based echo made it onto the Zone 1 backbone. Now some of you may be wondering to yourselves, why is there a need for another Bible discussion echo, and to tell you the truth, before March of this year, I also would have asked that question. At any rate the reason that this echo was started, was due to a netmail that arrived at my hub and at my NC simultaneously requesting that I be cut from any links to a particular Bible discussion echo. Now what was particularly troubling to me was that I was not even linked to the echo, and had never been, so I appealed to my echomail hub and to my NC. After several weeks of no response from the originator of the netmail, my NC ruled that there was no reason for me to be banned, lacking any evidence of rules violation. Upon that ruling I linked into the echo, to find people constantly being threatened with access cuts and in almost every case, their main "violation" was that they dared to disagree with the doctrinal position of the moderator. After several weeks of watching, I began to contact former participants of this echo with the idea of starting a new Bible discussion echo, and upon finding two others, we jointly started the echo that is called Wholly_Bible. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 3 16 Aug 1993 Wholly_Bible was and is intended as a place for those who have been run off of other Bible discussion echos a place to discuss, without the verbal abuse that seems to be present on some. We are committed to respecting the beliefs of others, even when they differ greatly with ours, although we do restrict the material from which discussion is based. We know and realize that viewpoints on the Bible vary greatly, and often are contradictory, one to the other, and also realize that these beliefs are often very deeply rooted. Therefore it is the decision of the moderators, that when we see sparks and flames beginning, that we will rule that the participants in the verbal war should agree to disagree, and then to drop the subject. We are at this time also allowing general conversations to also take place, although they must be generally related to the overall topic of the echo. Tagname: WHOLLY_BIBLE Area Key: WHLLYBBL Title: Biblical discussions and related topics Description: An echo for the discussion of Bible topics and themes, with a focus on Scriptural basis for ideas. This echo is for Christian discussion and not for debating whether Christianity is valid or not. Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew scholars welcomed, as we consider correct interpretation to be important for correct doctrinal beliefs. This echo is dedicated to supplying a place to discuss Biblically, without the name-calling and one-sided approach that is prevalent in other echos. We understand that different points of view and doctrines are out there, and feel that if necessary, then all concerned need to "agree to disagree" and then to drop the discussion for the time being. Moderators: Mark Wilson, 1:379/1108@FidoNet.org Scott McCool, 1:291/7@FidoNet.org Dave Wright, 1:395/22@FidoNet.org In case of trouble obtaining a feed, contact myself at 1:379/1108, or Scott McCool at 1:291/7, and we will set up a feed for you, although anyone hooked into the backbone should be able to obtain it from their normal sources. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 4 16 Aug 1993 Collecting "FREQ" lists By: Glen Piwowarczyk @ 1:154/17@FIDONET Collecting "FREQ" lists I saw in the editorial of the last FidoNews, and saw talk about collecting "FREQ" lists. I sent out a message a few days ago on the FN_SYSOP echo about this. I'm willing to make one BIG .ZIP of all the "FREQ" lists I can get my paws on. So, please send all your files lists to 1:154/17, and they'll be added to my .ZIP. Right now it is so small that I haven't "published" it yet, but when it gets big enough, I'll put out the word. If there are those SysOps who get newer and better files every few days, I will update the .ZIP when I get your list, but please, PLEASE don't send a new one EVERY day, just every week, or so. I hope to add another check mark to the things me board is known for, so please just send your list along! Oh, a few little things, please make the filename something original, like your BBS name, so there aren't duplicate filenames, and also send a little letter saying "Here's my file list, thanks for spreading the news about my BBS, because after all your giving up precious hard drive space, blah, blah..." or something equally pointless. Now, lets get those file lists in here! Glen Piwowarczyk - TalkNut BBS - 414-334-8033 - 1:154/17@FIDONET.ORG P.S. You might have notice my board being down from the week of the 6th through the 13th, just upgrading the system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ARJ vs ZIP -- are we missing the point? By Scott Fell 1:304/7 or Scott.Fell@quandra.flagstaff.az.us The compression controversy Results can be misleading in a small test such as the one submitted a few weeks ago. I find it difficult to believe that people would change an archiver because of a 1 second difference in speed or a 1% difference in size. Now I know the results weren't THAT close, but I don't really think the important thing here is the archiver and the results, but rather the philosophy behind it. This is also known as getting by with the best software the cheapest way possible :-) Why do I use ARJ? It's a great program that I don't have to pay for! I realize this may sound a bit blunt, but I personally am not interested in paying zillions of dollars in registration fees for a HOBBY which I think should be kept to the smallest cost possible, particularly as a sysop, and especially given my own resources as a "starving student" in college. Even if that free program is in some way inferior to the 'pay for play' software, if it accomplishes the same feat in a reasonable FidoNews 10-33 Page: 5 16 Aug 1993 fashion, I'll always opt to go for the software that's free. I'm very happy that ARJ is so popular, I'm very supportive of the format. But if ZIP was 'free' (for non-commercial use-- free to me), and ARJ was not, then I would use ZIP. If they were both free, I would have to compare the two on features instead of cost. At this point, ARJ would win the competition at that game as well. ARJ has a lot more features in general. I personally have no idea why Mr. Jung allows us to use his archiver free-of-charge, especially given that it's one of the top two archivers in use, and number one in available features, but nonetheless, I'm grateful he does. Cost is also the reason I use Maximus, Binkley, and a variety of other very good programs which are also free for all use, or free for non-commercial use. If you do a little searching around, you're bound to find lots of free programs that will save you money. There's just no reason to spend money on something you don't have to. Call me cheap, but it frees up the pocketbook for more important things... Like that next hardware upgrade ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ARJ vs ZIP, The Faceoff, PART II By Scott Miller, The Star Board BBS (1:123/416) Ok, Ok, I screwed up the first one, now for a better test. I read several articles and messages written to me, and found that many people believed that I was two narrow in my test. For this one I have rerun the test with a mailpackets provided by FIDO, containing many messages (around 633). I also read a similar test, but it was slightly unfair, because it used ARJ 2.3, which is not quite as tight as 2.41. Again, all caches and other disk utilities have been disabled. ----------------------TEST RESULTS, PART 2--------------------------- TIMING RESULTS (Courtesy of 4DOS's TIMER command): ------------------------------------------------- ARJ v2.41, Robert K. Jung: Timer 1 on: 15:29:54 Timer 1 off: 15:30:20 elapsed: 0:00:25.93 PKZIP v2.04g Phil Katz, and PKWARE INC: Timer 1 on: 15:28:00 Timer 1 off: 15:28:28 elapsed: 0:00:27.19 COMPRESSION RESULTS (The respective VIEW switches): --------------------------------------------------- FidoNews 10-33 Page: 6 16 Aug 1993 --------- ARJ v2.41: --------- Processing archive: FIDOMAIL.ARJ Archive created: 1993-08-06 15:29:54, modified: 1993-08-06 15:29:54 Sequence/Pathname/Comment Rev Host OS Original Compressed Ratio DateTime modified CRC-32 ------------ ---------- ---------- ----- ----------------- -------- 001) 6D85C8B3.PKT 6 MS-DOS 154151 46962 0.318 93-08-06 06:28:46 48552D76 002) 6D85C8C6.PKT 6 MS-DOS 153611 49023 0.319 93-08-06 06:33:36 031A1C51 003) 6D85C8EF.PKT 6 MS-DOS 104752 32875 0.314 93-08-06 06:45:24 04BB2D02 004) 6D88E7A8.PKT 6 MS-DOS 154768 46467 0.300 93-08-06 09:24:32 B5A3608C 005) 6D88E7B8.PKT 6 MS-DOS 155376 49765 0.320 93-08-06 09:27:44 B74D3EE4 006) 6D88E7D1.PKT 6 MS-DOS 88293 26484 0.300 93-08-06 09:33:26 4B489DE4 007) 6D8AA028.PKT 6 MS-DOS 631 452 0.716 93-08-06 10:38:30 E863B93D 008) 6D8B58BF.PKT 6 MS-DOS 2859 1494 0.523 93-08-06 11:22:02 78B5F965 009) 6D8D15B8.PKT 6 MS-DOS 409 309 0.756 93-08-06 13:06:02 7235FEAB ------------ ---------- ---------- ----- 9 files 814850 253831 0.314 ------------- PKZIP, v2.04g: ------------- Searching ZIP: FIDOMAIL.ZIP Length Method Size Ratio Date Time Name ------ ------ ----- ----- ---- ---- ---- 154151 DeflatX 49860 69% 08-06-93 06:286D85C8B3.PKT 153611 DeflatX 51220 69% 08-06-93 06:336D85C8C6.PKT 104752 DeflatX 32320 70% 08-06-93 06:456D85C8EF.PKT 154768 DeflatX 45849 71% 08-06-93 09:246D88E7A8.PKT 155376 DeflatX 48870 69% 08-06-93 09:276D88E7B8.PKT 88293 DeflatX 26010 71% 08-06-93 09:336D88E7D1.PKT 631 DeflatX 453 29% 08-06-93 10:386D8AA028.PKT 2859 DeflatX 1497 48% 08-06-93 11:226D8B58BF.PKT 409 DeflatX 313 24% 08-06-93 13:066D8D15B8.PKT ------ ------ --- ------- 814850 255392 70% ---------------------------------------------------------- This time, to be less biased, I will keep my mouth shut about the results, you can read, find out yourself. Scott Miller FidoNews 10-33 Page: 7 16 Aug 1993 Compression Doubletake Barry Smith 1:130/807 Second Thoughts on Compression Routines In response to Thoughts on Compression Routines by (Mike Riddle 1:285/27 Fido-News Vol. 10 Num. 30), I have found a small but fundamental problem with this process. It is based upon the conclusion that 0's are meaningless. [Quoted from original] For example, suppose the data string to be compressed consisted of the following: 11010101^1 In the above string, there are 5 ones and 3 zeroes. The zeroes are dropped as conveying no information. The compressed information that there are 5 ones can be presented thus: in binary, 101 (in decimal 5) The condensed information takes account of every information- conveying one in the original information string but occupies less room. [End quotation] This is a false assumption. The zero's in question are placeholders. To get technical, they change the power of the ones to the left of them by (in binary) a power of two. Example: 1001 = 9 in binary, 1100 = 12 in binary, 1010 = 10 in binary, &c. With the compression method mentioned (Due to it's size I will not quote it.), these zeros are removed and all of these numbers become the same: 11. In any encryption method, these must be distinguishable or the final product will be unable to be decompressed. To look at this from an easier angle, consider decompressing two files. One file contains 1010 1010 1010 1010 1010 1010 1010. The other contains 1001 0010 0100 1001 0010 0100 1001 0010 0100 1001. After the first compression, they both become 11 1111 1111 1111 (14 ones). Then the 14 (1110) becomes 3 (101), then 2 (10), and finally 1. Does the fact that both files reduced to 1 and had the same number of passes through the encryption process mean that they are the same? No! They are different files of different lengths and containing no numbers in common. If you were given the number of passes and the number 1, which file would be decompressed, the first or the last? This method of compression, although outwardly appearing to be great, has no hope of working, at least not to any compression rate that would be any better than those offered by other compression programs, assuming it was able to decompress at all. To work, it FidoNews 10-33 Page: 8 16 Aug 1993 would require knowing where those non-informative zeros go. TIMES HAVEN'T CHANGED MUCH by Jack Decker I was just reading Fidonews Vol.10 No.32 and came across this little all-too-familiar blurb: > PRIME and HOLY_BIBLE, The Wholly Bible Echo > Steve Winter > FidoNet 1:18/98 > Those who want false christianity or a visit with infidels certainly > have several networks and echos available, but if any are interested > in "non-compromised" Apostolic Christianity, I encourage you to check > out PRIME. As far as the reprobate oneness nets go, I believe the > Lord allready rated them just a tad below a dunghill. [remainder of article deleted] I had rather hoped that with new editors of Fidonews, this recurring advertisement would not be allowed, or at least the writer would be required to tone down his language a bit. It strikes me as odd that you can make comments like this about members of certain faiths and no one says a word. I wonder what the response would have been had the same sort of language been used to describe those of a particular race, national origin, gender, etc.? I suspect that in some countries it might have caused this issue of Fidonews to go into the bit bucket, since redistribution might well have violated some "hate crimes" legislation that exists in other jurisdictions. There are a couple things you should remember about any religious cult (I am NOT calling Mr. Winter's group a cult, but I will leave it to the reader to decide if there are similarities!). One is that virtually all of them insist that theirs is the ONLY group that God approves of. Even if their entire group consists of twenty people and was founded only three months ago, they believe that everyone else (including most everyone who has died before they arrived on the scene) is going straight to Hell. I personally do believe that there is a Hell to be feared, but I seriously doubt that the way out is SO narrow that only members of one small sect are going to find it. And besides, as any Christian familiar with the parable of the wheat and the tares realizes, it is very dangerous for mere mortals to sit in judgement of how God feels about others. The other thing is that cults usually have a strong leader who does not take kindly to opposing viewpoints (I am rather understating this, but if you recall the recent events in Waco, Texas you hopefully get my drift. That was an extreme case, but still...). Now, when Steve Winter was sending longer articles to Fidonews explaining his beliefs last year, I wrote an article entitled "Bashing the Beliefs of Others in FidoNews", which I had hoped was a reasoned rebuttal of some of Mr. Winter's articles. Following publication of that article, most of the netmail I received was favorable. The sole exception was what in my opinion was an FidoNews 10-33 Page: 9 16 Aug 1993 extremely venomous netmail message from Steve Winter himself. I will quote only the first paragraph, since it sort of summarizes his response: "I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in the recent FidoNews. I can certainly understand why false christian filth are offended by the truth that exposes them as deceiving scum. Your cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of God." Now, that would have been bad enough, but in spite of the inflammatory language used (which I'd hardly consider "Christian"), I tried to send him a reasoned response by netmail, one that I'd spent quite a bit of time writing. But when I tried to send the message, it came back to me, bounced by "MBounce V1.00". The first line of the bounce message said, "The following message was refused at the above address" and it came from Mr. Winter's address (which was also in the MSGID line of the bounce message). So apparently Mr. Winter felt that he could blast everyone else's beliefs (in both Fidonews and Netmail), but insulate himself from any replies using a robot bouncer. Draw your own conclusions. To top everything off, Mr. Winter filed a Policy Complaint against me, and seemed to very much want to have me kicked out of Fidonet (I think because I complained about his robot bouncer, but who knows the real reason). In any case, the complaint was dismissed, which made him even more upset. I won't go into all the details, but the whole incident, in my opinion, painted Mr. Winter in a very unChristian light. The bottom line, again in my opinion, is that Mr. Winter is sowing the seeds of hatred against those who do not believe _precisely_ as he does. While I'm sure that he can pick Bible verses out of context to justify his behaviour (while ignoring entire chapters such as Romans 14), I would hope that the editors of Fidonews would not be inclined to let him preach essentially the same message on a semi-regular basis (by running the same "ad" over and over). Since I no longer have a presence in Fidonet, maybe my opinion on this doesn't count. But given the netmail I received last year, I know there are many others who feel the same way. By the way, just in closing (and on a totally different topic), I want to agree with the comment from Stanton McCandlish (and similar comments that have been expressed by others) about the size of the nodelist. One of the reasons I finally disconnected from Fidonet was due to the size of the Nodelist. This is another of those technical problems that folks have tried to solve using political means, and it hasn't worked (well, the Germans did manage to achieve a significant reduction in their part of the nodelist, but at what cost?!). The funny part is that those who defend retaining ARC as the compression method always say they are doing it for those using the "oddball" (usually older) machine that can't use any other form of unarchiver, yet many of those older machines have limited storage capacity, and may well choke on the sheer size of the nodelist long before the FidoNews 10-33 Page: 10 16 Aug 1993 compression method becomes a problem, at the rate things are going. I said "way back when" that authors of software intended to be used in Fidonet ought to design their software with the idea that someday, not every valid node in Fidonet would be listed in the nodelist. Nobody listened. So now people are starting to look and say "You mean I'm using four or five megs of precious disk space just for nodelists!?!" and still we don't seem any closer to a solution. Strange... but, alas, true. Jack Decker - Internet address: ao944@yfn.ysu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Public-Safety Bulletin Board Systems: Filling a need By Tom Batchelor, EMT-P SysOp, Healthline BBS 1:137/222 How Public Safety oriented BBS's are filling an important need... I am the SysOp of Healthine BBS in Bradenton, Florida, Bradenton's only Fire, EMS (emergency medical services) Public Safety BBS. I wanted to take time and fill everyone in on what Public Safety BBS's are all about, why I am running one and the future of this kind of system. You've probably run into one or two Public Safety BBS's in your time telecommunicating. There actually is quite a few (exact numbers -- even ballpark numbers -- I have no idea about). From the variety of origin lines in FireNet and other Public Safety echo's, it appears to be a large number. I originally started Healthline with the provider in mind; in other words, the Firefighter, EMS worker, EMT, Paramedic and Cop on the street. After a year of doing it, however, the number of actual users on my system who are in the above categories is few. The vast majority of my users are average citizens who have little or no knowlege of public safety. After I noticed that fact, I was not dissapointed at all. In fact, I was jubilant, especially after I started getting a lot of positive comments from the average user about how "nice" my BBS theme was. It would appear that my users were interested in the public safety concept, information about it and information about their Fire, EMS and Public Safety system. This is not a suprise to me, however. Frankly, I don't think that many citizens even know what kind of Fire Department services their community; or, what kind of Emergency Medical Service is available in their area; or, if their providers are paid or volunteer. Usually, it's just not something you think about on a daily (or yearly) basis until you need them. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 11 16 Aug 1993 This is one of the reasons Healthline is around. Being a firefighter/paramedic, I really want to spread the word about public safety, it's good points and bad points, and how the average citizen can get involved to help their providers do a better job. The future of systems that provide this kind of access to information about public safety is good, I think. More and more boards sporting this theme are popping up to fill the need. After all, you know how hard it is to get information out of beurocrats, right? ;) I would like to encourage any inquiries on public safety systems, how to start one, where to link up with, whatever. Just netmail me at 1:137/222 or call my BBS at 813-751-4573. See you on the tube! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- An Update from Joe Sysop by Joe Sysop@1:something/something While the support has been appreciated, I regret having given cause to others to post 'pseudonymous' messages. My own use is a matter of protection since matters are not yet resolved. To detractors such as David Starks, I would point out that I had admitted in the original article that I am under investigation and proceedings for a criminal charge...specifically, a set of components which I believed to be salvage are now being claimed as stolen. However, to make it clear, I was *not* under investigation for software piracy, pornography distribution, credit card hacking, or access to restricted databases. As with any person who assembles their own system, I have numerous parts laying around, such as motherboards, controllers and I/O cards, mostly from older XTs. However, my BBS and all the hard drives in the house were confiscated; packages of software were confiscated; a fax/modem was confiscated; a large amount of paperwork was confiscated. None of it, however, was a specific target as inventoried in the search warrant...instead, this was all taken under the 'general provisions' even though none of it matched the items that the search warrant was specifically issued for. Further, the downloading of the BBS contents is not addressed in any of the reports, nor is there any mention of the police officer having even been the one performing the download...especially since I have now discovered that my BBS, taken in the raid by the officers as 'evidence' for my upcoming case, was prominently displayed in a meeting room where training in 'cracking' hard drives of suspects was conducted...by a completely separate police agency, and outside of a police FidoNews 10-33 Page: 12 16 Aug 1993 facility. What is going on here? Do I not have any rights? I paid for my system and the costs of having the hard drive rebuilt and resurfaced---do I lose all my rights by being arrested? Does my system now become a 'training tool' without regard? Mind you, the officer conducting the 'training' was the same one who performed the download of my system, and received a commendation from federal agencies for his seminar! Presenting this to my attorney, I was told that it is likely that both my system and hard drives, which were *not* listed in the warrant nor even alleged to be stolen, will not be returned to me; that my own equipment is going to be taken without compensation, simply because these were found 'at the scene of a crime'. Keep in mind...I am not trying to start a panic here. I *am*, however, letting people who run BBSs that there are police agencies out there who have no idea of what is going on with respect to privacy nor even the delicacy of equipment. The attitude I've been presented with is "So what?" when I've raised concerns about the treatment of the equipment and the contents of the drives; the officers are determined to find _something_ illegal on the drives, by any means possible. Further, so-called police 'experts' may be the worst thing that can happen to a system; the 'phantom' officer who backed up my hard drive couldn't figure out how to access the Stacked drive itself. Can someone tell me what the effect of the DES blackbox or other decryption devices or programs have on Stacker or DoubleSpace? Can anyone tell me the effects of these on programs, encrypted or not? The attitude I'm receiving is that if things are damaged, it is my own fault for having them on the hard drive anyway! The bottom line: It appears that the current thought in police investigation is to confiscate computer data and equipment, even if it is your own and can be proven, in order to investigate that you are doing something illegal. Because there is no specificity or law guiding this type of search, computer data and storage systems can be confiscated under NON-SPECIFIC terms in a search warrant...basically under the 'any and all documents' provision which is contained in most search warrants, and usually used to take evidence that you live at the site of a search. Further, there seems to be NO guidelines on how data and storage are to be treated; in my own case, the back-up made by the officer is most likely in the evidence locker, while my own system has become something to carry around and show off, possibly even to demonstrate police decryption procedures on. I am amazed by all this. I am dumbfounded. Granted, it's FidoNews 10-33 Page: 13 16 Aug 1993 budget time, and the officer has to justify his job as 'Computer Crimes Officer', but to take these kinds of liberties, to do this sort of damage, is more than reprehensible; it is nearly criminal in itself! As well, the fact that the officer in question is not mentioned *once* as being part of the investigation makes it even more amazing that he would have access to my equipment! Be aware. That is my warning to anyone who might be suspected of a crime or involvement in one, whether or not the crime was actually committed by you. Take the warning as you will, a Chicken Little warning or a real and true threat to your system's security; it does happen, because it _is_ happening. (Note to Tom Jennings: I understand that you have been informed of my situation and status. I appreciate your help, and thank you for it. I will route the updates to you as they happen.) # NO 30 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A Response to David Stark Shawn McMahon 1:206/1701.666 Mr. Stark, you raised some questions in your article "An Open Letter to Joe Sysop" that I believe need to be answered. However, Joe can't give you those answers at present. Let me see what I can do for you. You ask why the location and identities are being concealed. Two reasons: 1) Joe has been advised by counsel not to talk about it. 2) Joe is taking crap from the local authorities about his computer use; making said authorities look bad over Fidonet is part of what got him into this in the first place, so I don't think he wants to give them an excuse to come take away his stone-age-technology temporary system. He's located in Zone 1; that's all I can tell you, but then he said that himself in his letter. You then went on to say: 'If the story is true as related, I should be seeing it on "20/20" or "60 Minutes" or "Inside Edition" as a classic case of illegal search and seizure.' You're right; you should. However, you probably won't. They don't know any more about computers than the involved officers, so they probably think terminal programs qualify as "hacking programs" too. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 14 16 Aug 1993 One of the officers, the phantom police officer, in fact, boasts of his training in the 'newest' virus program---a virus that activates during a modem transfer, allegedly demonstrated at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Georgia. Such a virus is impossible to exist in either a hardware or software environment. Further, you said: 'Maybe "Joe Sysop" is really guilty of some crime and is taking out his anger at having been caught by writing inflammatory articles for Fidonews.' Maybe he is; nevertheless, much of the equipment seized has nothing to do with the crime of which he is accused, the warrant was vague enough to allow seizing nearly anything with a silicon chip in it, and some of the authorities involved do have personal grudges against Mr. Sysop. As it is, instead of being held in an evidence locker for the upcoming hearings, the computers and hard drives were used in a demonstration by those same authorities on how to decipher encrypted files and recover deleted files from seized equipment...using the 'latest decryption technology' like the DES 'black box'. Mind you, these are the same pieces of equipment alleged to have been the stolen property; if they are stolen, why are they being used for a training seminar for local, state and federal employees, when the court case is still _pending_? I'm not gleaning all of this from his letter; I know the guy, and have for some time. You also said: 'You cite the Steve Jackson Games case. Is your attorney familiar with the ruling? What is your real problem?' He is now, but wasn't when that article was written. I helped track down the information on it. It's VERY similar, although Mr. Sysop doesn't have the primary defense used in that case available to him; he's not a publisher. Which is why you should be a heck of a lot more concerned with the outcome, because you probably have terminal programs on your BBS, too. Note: In the time intervening between when I originally wrote this and when I submitted it, the specific properties have been identified; those reported as having been stolen are now separate from the personal property. However, with the use of the equipment at the demonstration by the police, counsel has indicated it does not seem likely that there is any intention of FidoNews 10-33 Page: 15 16 Aug 1993 the police to return the equipment to Joe Sysop. A petition for the return of the equipment has been made, but no ruling has been issued at this time. It was the stated intent of one of the officers that Joe would never see his equipment again, since it is now police property. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: WAKE UP FIDO From: Ralf Schneider (2:247/30) Germany in 1993. Everybody knows about the Situation here in Germany, and no one does anybody aginst it.We have two Fido-Net's here The Original FIDO (TM) and now our FIDO-CLASSIC.Fact is that most of the People are in FIDO-CLASSIC or some Sysops are listed in both net's. Everybody say's that the Situation is OK, maybe we got this or this Netmail not maybe this or another Node can't reech us....Private Systems !!?? IS NOBODY ON THE WORLD INTERESTED ABOUT THIS SITUATION ????????? Now the same procedure at R25 ?? !! Read your Echomail and ignore this Crying for HELP. Ralf Schneider ---------------------------------------------------------------------- STATUS REPORT ON THE VENDINFO PROJECT (as of "alpha-test" release, 7/31/93) Brief Project Description VENDINFO is a system for conveying software product information and distribution permissions from the author to distributors. A standard (public) file format will carry extensive information in a compressed, efficient form. The associated toolset will aid the author in constructing the record, and will allow the distributor to extract portions of the record, or make distribution decisions based on its content, in a highly auto- mated way. VENDINFO will allow automation of many operations now performed manually by BBS Sysops, disk vendors, etc. VENDINFO File-Format Standard ("Alpha-Test Version") Released An "alpha-test" version of the VENDINFO file-format standard is now available for study and comment. This is a lengthy (55 pages) and detailed description of the proposed file format, and is probably a good read only for those with a serious interest in the internals of VENDINFO, or a serious interest in helping to insure that VENDINFO handles the needs of the entire industry. For those with such an interest, it is available now, and comments are most welcome. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 16 16 Aug 1993 The standard can be obtained from the SHAREWARE forum on CompuServe (lib 0, VNDINF.ZIP); by download or FidoNet/RIME file request (as VENDINFO.ZIP) from the Rams' Island Software BBS (see below); or from various other sources. If absolutely necessary, hardcopies are available for mailing within the United States upon receipt of $3.00 U.S. and a mailing label. A complete set of VENDINFO information, including some material not available electronically, can be obtained for $5.00 U.S. and a mailing label. We are working now to prepare the VendEdit editor, the VendPrcs processor, and the software developer's library. When these are ready for beta testing, that test period will also constitute a beta test of the file format itself. Until then, the file format is regarded as changeable. Beta testing of all these components should begin by early September, and perhaps sooner. Those who have seen the prototypes of these tools agree (see just below) that they insulate the user from the complexity of the VENDINFO file format very well, and make the system easy to use. VENDINFO Prototype Tools Demonstrated at Summer Shareware Seminar A prototype VENDINFO toolset was demonstrated for two days at the Summer Shareware Seminar held in Indianapolis June 18-20. Nearly 200 attendees, representing authors, disk vendors, rack vendors, CD-ROM publishers, and BBS sysops, saw demonstrations of these tools. Virtually all were extremely positive. In fact, we've now had somewhere around 250 responses, either to the concept paper or to the demonstration. There have been literally zero negative responses. Three people have been skeptical about VENDINFO's acceptance by the industry, but all three were concerned about the complexity of the file format, and none had seen the editor. All those who saw the tools at SSS seemed to agree that it will be extremely easy to produce and to use the VENDINFO record, regardless of the (necessary) structural complexity of the record itself. Except for these three, all reactions have been positive. As you can see below, acceptance by the BBS software manufacturers has also been extremely good. Products Now "Committed in Principle" to Support VENDINFO The following software manufacturers are "committed in principle" to "support" the VENDINFO standard. That is, subject to our development of a satisfactory standard and software developer's library, these manufacturers agree to extract relevant product description information directly from the VENDINFO record, much like today's use of FILE_ID.DIZ. They have not been asked to make any direct use of the distribution policy information in the VENDINFO record. That is the function of a separate tool, optionally available to the Sysop. BBSes FidoNews 10-33 Page: 17 16 Aug 1993 PCBoard, Clark Development Co. Wildcat!, Mustang Software, Inc. Major BBS, Galacticomm Searchlight BBS, Searchlight Software TBBS, eSoft Auntie BBS, Wes Meier OmegaComm BBS, Larry Loiselle PowerBBS for Windows, Russell Frey ProBoard BBS, Philippe Leybaert Sapphire BBS, Pinnacle Software Tinyhost, Bruce Krobusek UltraBBS, UltraBBS Software Windowed Modem Environment, Jason Fesler File Upload Processors Catscan, Mike Ortiz CheckZip, Bill Hull DIZIT, Robert Neal/CorpSoft HoboScan, Floyd Hobson TransScan, Craig Dunstan Other Products Colorado Utilities Disk Manager, Micro Systems Solutions ================================================================ Rams' Island Software 7644 E. Lakecliff Way _______ Parker, CO 80134-5904 (USA) ____|__ | (R) --| | |------------------- Voice: (303) 841-2848 | ____|__ | Association of BBS: (303) 841-6269 | | |_| Shareware CompuServe: 76244,324 |__| o | Professionals -----| | |--------------------- FidoNet: 1:104/333 |___|___| MEMBER RIME: RAMSISLE Internet: 76244.324@CompuServe.Com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Moderators(?) From: Richard Sharp (1:157/574) I see so much these days about moderators excercising excessive powers over the unsuspecting users. Powers of dictation that scare me since they act more like policemen than simply moderators of echos. Some seem rather arrogant, ignorant, and at best obnoxious to a great degree. Many are abusing their power to moderate over others, and I'll cite just one example. My system besides being in FidoNet is also a hub serving a couple other systems. Recently, a user on one of my feeds entered a message in an echo that the moderator didn't appreciate. Instead of issueing a warning to the user, he sent crash net mail to the BBS in question demanding that the user be barred from the conference. The sysop in turn sent crash net mail to the moderator and apologized for his users actions; explained in FidoNews 10-33 Page: 18 16 Aug 1993 great detail that the user was brand new to BBs'ing and that he had been properly warned and reprimanded for his message. He then asked that the user be given a second chance. Rather than reply to the sysop, the moderator sent ME a crash net message demanding that I cut the feed for his echo to this system, which I did promptly. Then we have that other matter concerning a Mr. Bruce Bodger vs a node in his neck of the woods for violation of shareware licensing. Both of these situations are clear examples of abusing their power to moderate. In the past I've been warned too about being "off topic" but others have come to my rescue with messages to the moderator like "how do you figure he's off topic?", only to have THAT message ignored. I see in FidoNews that some are asking for some sort of guidelines for moderators to follow. Rather than those guidelines being optional, I would like to see them MANDATORY! A moderator should moderate, not set or change the rules on a daily basis depending on what side of the bed he/she got up from that day. MOST moderators are cordial, understanding, and do an excellent job, but there are those who act like they can do no wrong and make unfair decisions and issue unwarranted warnings. We carry FidoNet on our BB's for the enjoyment of ourselves and our users. We should not have to worry every time a message is entered by ourselves or our users that we will be issued a warning, banned from the echo alltogether, or worse yet, banned from FidoNet for excessively annoying behavior. Time for rules/regulations over moderators? Yep.. past due in fact! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Lap Times (tm) From: Andrew Forslind (1:132/168) *** LAP TIMES (tm) - The Premiere Interactive Electronic Magazine *** Lap Times (tm) is an interactive magazine in which BBS callers participate in the columns using FidoNet ECHOmail technology. Devoted to motorsports, Lap Times receives press releases from many major sanctioning bodies, tracks etc. Therefore it provides up-to-date news, as well as a place for fans and racing professionals to discuss their interests at a casual level. Lap Times has a simple charter which, above all, stresses respect for the costs of participating SysOps, and family oriented discussion. By using Fido-style ECHOs for it's "columns", Lap Times requires no special software. If you currently make Fido-style echomail available to your callers, you can set-up Lap Times by simply adding our columns to your configuration. Lap Times originates at 1:132/168, a V32b, V42b system located FidoNews 10-33 Page: 19 16 Aug 1993 in Nashua, New Hampshire USA. There are other sources which may be more convenient and less costly, ask about them when you send your application. FReq LAPTIMES.ZIP from that same system for information and membership application. Andrew Forslind (Nashua, NH), formerly the Media Relations Coordinator for an international motorsports organization, and Christy Calderella, (Grandview, MO) one of stock car racing's most enthusiastic fans, co-coordinate the Lap Times organization. INCLUDES: C_FANINFO Fan related information. C_GENCHAT General discussions not racing related. C_GENRACE General Racing discussions. C_OPENWHEE Open Wheel racing related discussion. C_SPORTCAR Sports car and club racing related discussion. C_STOCKCAR Stock Car racing related discussion. See ya' on the next lap! Many thanks, Andrew Forslind Coordinator Lap Times (tm) Interactive Electronic Magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Standards From: Jason Robertson (1:250/802.2) In life everything must change to suit it's environment. In the case of the Fidonet, they think they can running efficiently with outdated, ideas, and standards. The standard have to change in order for the efficiency to increase, such as the white butterfly in a area of high concentration of factories, the white butterflies will soon become extinct as they are easily found in the midst of the black smoke, but if they adapt and change their colouring to suit the environment they will avoid extinction. What make's the Fidonet any different? The Fidonet is a living organism in itself, as it already cover's what is required for a living organism it does grow, and it has already reproduced, creating various network for diverse topic areas. Archivers in present use as the standard, are limited in a miminal way. It is the time to upgrade to a system that is modern and doesn't cost as much to transfer files between FidoNews 10-33 Page: 20 16 Aug 1993 systems, this requires a change in archiver's as the base, at this point knowledge of one archiver that is presently available for many different systems is .ZIP archivers. This increased compression will inevitably change the outlook of the system, by increasing throughput of information from and two other systems. Then after the upgrade of archivers, there could be a upgrade of the usage of Bi-Directional File Transfer Protocols, and none of this Proposal of usage of this, as it has already proved to be useful. It requires less time to transfer in both direction at the same time, then individual transfers. Then talking about changes, the whole network should run like a business, if someone has a complaint there should be a higher power who's sole responsiblity is to make sure that equality among the users is upheld to the highest standard, such as a Electronic Judge. So that things like what is recently happening in Net250 doesn't happen to often. This change could also be increase, by giving not absolute, definite rules for moderators to follow, but simple guides, to help them set-up, run, and moderate, with efficiency, without the distruction towards people. If even one of these changes were to follow through especially the software, based it would save money toward the end user, and especially the carriers. Jason T. Robertson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FREE ONLINE ACCESS TO STATE LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION From: Jim Warren Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 05:07:07 -0700 TOPIC: FREE ONLINE ACCESS TO COMPLETE STATE LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION California's public legislative information, plus the state statutes and volumous state Constitution will become available via the public networks, WITHOUT CHARGE by the Legislature, IF they pass Assembly Bill 1624 before they recess, Sept. 10th. AB1624 would mandate free public access via the Internet. And Tim Pozar who runs KUMR.LNS.COM and who created the first Internet-to-Fidonet gateway and UFGATE has already committed to feeding the data through to Fido-folks. NO COST TO THE STATE/TAX-PAYERS It will cost the state essentially nothing to do all this. They will use their current computers, files already computerized for internal use, and their current T-1 (1.544Mbit) Internet connection - which, in turn, is gatewayed to almost all public and consumer networks, including a 100-or-so gateways to Fidonet, such as Pozar's. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 21 16 Aug 1993 If AB1624 passes, it will MAKE CALIFORNIA THE FIRST STATE providing TIMELY, FREE, statewide, online access to comprehensive legislative data via the public computer nets. For the first time, citizens throughout the state will have economical opportunity to timely-participate in the process of their/our own governance - rather than being limited only to outrage after-the-fact. Further, it will provide an example for citizens in other states to use in encouraging their states to similarly open their governmental processes. BUT ... THE ONLY THING THAT HAS KEPT THIS BILL MOVING HAS BEEN A STREAM OF SUPPORT LETTERS AND PUBLIC PRESSURE FROM A BROAD RANGE OF INDIVIDUALS AND GROUPS! (It's only known opponents are several of the Legislature's top unelected bureaucrats - *powerful* insiders wanting to *sell* access for big bucks.) LETTERS AND FAXES SUPPORTING AB1624 ARE NEEDED, ASAP It's now in an "end game." Aug. 18th, the Senate Rules Committee will consider and vote on AB1624. Sep. 10th, the Legislature quits working in Sacramento for the year. Oct. 10th, the Governor must veto legislatively-approved bills he opposes. The Senate Rules Committee is run by Sen. Dave Roberti (D- L.A./Van Nuys). If he likes AB1624, it will pass Rules. If not, he can and will kill it. If Roberti passes it, it will almost-certainly pass the Senate. Then we need for the Assembly to "concur in amendments" and need for the Governor to let it become law. LETTERS ARE *ESPECIALLY* NEEDED FROM *SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA* Most of the support for AB1624 has been coming from Northern California. But, most of the key Senate legislators are from Southern California. They NEED to hear from their constituents. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, please send a one-page letter supporting AB1624 to the Senate Rules Committee - who have seen essentially *no* support for it: Letters/faxes should be addressed to "State Capitol, Sacremanto CA 95814." Sen. David Roberti, Chair, Room 400; fax/916-323-7224; voice/916-445-8390... and to the other four members (tiny, *powerful* committee!): Sen. Ruben Ayala (D-Chino area), Room 5108; f/916-445-0128; v/916-445-6868. Sen. Robert Beverly (R-Long Beach), Room 5082; f/not avail.; v/916-445-6447. Sen. William Craven (R-Oceanside), Room 3070; f/not avail.; v/916-445-3731. Sen. Nick Petris (D-Alameda), Room 5080; fax/916-327-1997; v/916-445-6577. FidoNews 10-33 Page: 22 16 Aug 1993 Important: Please also send COPIES of ALL letters to the AB1624 author: Hon. Debra Bowen, Room 3126; voice/916-445-8528; fax/916-327-2201. Please include your title and work-organization, "for identification purposes, only" (to impress the legislators with the bredth of interest in AB1624). CAN EMAIL VIA ME, IF YA CAN'T FIND TIME FOR FAX- OR SNAIL-MAIL If you don't have time to send snail-mail, you can email your message to jwarren@well.sf.ca.us on the Internet, and I will print and/or fax the entire message to Bowen and to the legislator(s) to whom you address it. (Please allow for that delay.) Write it exactly as you would snail-mail, but please BE SURE TO INCLUDE your name, address and phone #s for legislators' independent verification. FOR MORE DETAILS AND PROGRESS REPORTS If you would like details and updates (via email from the Internet), let me know. I will forward the last half-dozen updates about the bill, and will keep you timely-informed of next steps and needed action. SEE YOU AT BBSCON (Aug. 25-29, Colorado Springs, Colo.)? I will be giving the keynote address at BBSCON, and will also be chairing a session that will cover this topic, among others, "Online Access to Govt." Would be delighted to chat with you about this. We have a voice. We will either use it - or loose it. --jim Jim Warren, columnist for MicroTimes, Government Technology & BoardWatch jwarren@well.sf.ca.us -or- jwarren@autodesk.com 345 Swett Rd., Woodside CA 94062; voice/415-851-7075; fax/415-851-2814 [organizer & Chair, First Conference on Computers, Freedom & Privacy (1991); InfoWorld founder (1978); Autodesk Board of Directors member; etc. blah blah] < just a citizen/volunteer/advocate re AB1624; no business interest therein > Please pass this along to others who might be interested. I hope you will notify your users. It *is*, after all, OUR government. :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== FidoNews 10-33 Page: 23 16 Aug 1993 ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tom Jennings IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been changed!!! Please make a note of this. "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) Internet addresses: Don & Sylvia (submission address) editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience) FidoNews 172 Duke St. E. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 1A7 Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews (we're easy). OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.) INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.) FidoNews 10-33 Page: 24 16 Aug 1993 SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. Asked what he thought of Western civilization, M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea". -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------