F I D O N E W S -- Vol.11 No.42 (17-Oct-1994) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | Small animal psychology and | | (_| /_) | Spiritual guidance Department: | | _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 | | | | \ \\ | | | | (*) | \ )) | Editors: | | |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 | | (_/(_|(____/ | Tim | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com | | David Deitch -- 1:133/411.411, deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 2 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Subject: Censorship......................................... 2 Subject: Planet Connect Censorship.......................... 4 Subject: CENSOR. KEVIN.ZIP.................................. 7 Dear Reverend Visage,....................................... 8 What is the effect of the NET700 case to the world?......... 10 SysOp's vs. 1st Time Callers................................ 12 Computers, Freedom and Privacy '95 Call for Participation... 13 Subject: Logical Deduction.................................. 17 Subject: Animals in Fido.................................... 18 Subject: Letter from Net700 to IC........................... 18 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 20 FidoNews 11-42 Page: 2 17 Oct 1994 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== Planet Connect has always made me a bit nervous. Not only is the satelite a commercial venture, but it always seemed to me that we were putting all our eggs in one basket by using it. The phone line method has been one of Fidonet's great strengths ... a work-arround can always be found if one method of moving the mail fails. In addition, it always seemed to me that the goal, eventually, should be an internet type of network. As the data highway concept gains steam, Fidonet should be working towards a fully interconnected net with close to immediate node to node mail. Nevertheless, the cost benefits of the satelite made it difficult to argue against it. This week, however, we have discovered that Plannet Connect is in the habit of censoring the mail that passes through. That is another matter entirely. The next few articles are about that censorship, so I will say no more. I expect to hear a lot on this issue over the next few weeks. A 24 hour log of items censored is available by Freq from this BBS as PCCON.ZIP. It is approximately 1/4 meg, compressed. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== From: The Terminator (1:2805/1) To: Editor (1:1/23) Subject: Censorship... Gentlemen: Thank you for publishing my policy complaint concerning commercial use of FidoNet. I especially enjoyed your editorial comments. You have a brilliant future with the mainstream media as your comments perfectly reflected the Liberal Manifesto. Ordinarily, I would pen an appropriately Conservative response to your Socialist prattle, however something more important has arisen. It has come to my attention that Planet Connect has been CENSORING FidoNet echoes. At the bottom of this message is a copy of netmail I recently received. This is the only hard evidence I have at the present time, although I am confident that more is forthcoming. There have been rumours circulating for over two weeks about this matter. If Planet Connect is indeed CENSORING FidoNet echomail, it must cease immediately. CENSORSHIP is one issue where both Liberals and Conservatives agree. According to the enclosed example, Planet Connect is using NOBOGUS to scan for any message containing the word "fuck." Any message containing this word causes the entire packet to be immediately sidelined for inspection by hand. FidoNews 11-42 Page: 3 17 Oct 1994 Planet Connect then decides whether the message is "appropriate" before sending the packet. What gives them the right to decide the appropriateness of echomail? How do we know if they are ACTUALLY examining the sidetracked packets? What if they are just deleting the packets? This is entirely possible since it would be incredibly time consuming to examine 20,000 messages by hand. What if they were to configure NOBOGUS to scan for the word "Jesus?" This is CENSORSHIP, plain and simple. This is not only a violation of FidoNet Policy 4.07, it is also contradictory to the spirit of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights. I would ask you to publish this is message in FidoNews and I would urge you to conduct your own investigation into this matter. This is North America, not Nazi Germany. Sincerely yours, Brent R. Hamm Network Echo Coordinator Network 2805 * Originally by John Hrusovszky, 1:238/300@fidonet * Originally to Kevin McCarthy, 1:238/470 * Originally dated 12 Oct 1994, 23:15 Kevin...just felt I needed to inform you that Planet Connect is sort of censoring your mail in the FLAME conference. They are using some numskull utility called NoBogus to search for, flag, and set aside words like "fuck", etc. They then manually inspect the message, and then either allow it through, or discard it. I disagree with this policy totally, and have voiced my opinion on it quite openly. Not being a Planet Connect SysOp, they will now allow you to get the PCSITES echo, as that is for PC SysOps only, bu there IS a PLANET_CONNECT echo, that everyone is welcome in, and you are more than welcome to turn that one on if you wish to address this problem. (There are LOTS of planet Connect problems, and a LOT of us SysOps are going to go away to their competition -- when one becomes available). Anyway, just thought you should know. I take this quite seriously that I transfer mail to and from you, as you are a paying customer. I disagree 100% with their stupid policy on this (and other things) and will fight for your right to post as you see fit. If a moderator has a problem with it, let that moderator take the issue up with you. It is NOT planet connects duty to become our digital big brother! FidoNews 11-42 Page: 4 17 Oct 1994 From: The Terminator (1:2805/1) To: Editor (1:1/23) Subject: Planet Connect Censorship * Originally by Kevin McCarthy, 1:238/470@fidonet * Originally to Joe Leggett, 1:238/0 * Originally dated 13 Oct 1994, 13:24 Hi Joe, I have a friendly question, yet it is rather disturbing to myself and others in the net. It would seem that Planet Connect is censoring Fidonet conferences. Specifically, they are using NoBogus to screen for potentially offensive words in messages, and tossing them out, at which point they are manually screening them and deciding whether or not to forward them. Now, I have no problem with Planet Connect doing whatever they need to do to weed out duplicates, or echo "bricing"...but when it comes to the content of a message destined for a specific echo, they have NO business deciding what mail is appropriate or not appropriate for consumption. That task is for the moderator of said echo to decide for him or herself. I am specifically talking about the FLAME conference, but this is going on in other conferences as well. In the FLAME conference, I used to receive 500+ messages per day. I am currently receiving around 150 per day. There are users out there posting from half-way across the country, and not making it to my system, and vice-versa. I wish to file a formal complaint against Planet Connect, or the individual who would represent Planet Connect in this matter, and I was hoping you could point me in the right direction. I received a netmail message from my Planet Connect feed, John Hrusovzski, regarding this act of blatent censorship, yesterday on 10/12/94. I am in contact with him, and have asked him for some concrete proof (i.e. NoBogus logs, correspondence from the PCSITES echo, other correspondences regarding this matter) which I will present as evidence when the time comes. I am specifically claiming that Planet Connect, or the individual(s) who represent Planet Connect, are in violation of FidoNet Policy Document, versoin 4.07, June 9, 1989. Specifically: #1. Violation of article 2.1.5 - No Alteration of Routed Mail. Planet Connect is deliberately deleting Echomail (Routed Mail) messages, using their own discretion, contrary to the policy set forth in 2.1.5 of the FidoNet Policy Document, which FidoNews 11-42 Page: 5 17 Oct 1994 states one _must_ follow the procedure outlined in 2.1.7 of said document when not routing mail per the routing agreement. #2. Violation of article 2.1.7 - Not Routing Mail (para.2) Planet Connect is not returning the messages to the sender which were found to be offensive, or the accompanying reasons for not routing said messages. Both of these requirements are outlined in paragraph 2 of section 2.1.7 of the Fido Policy Document. I feel the above violations are very serious in nature, and warrant immediate action. This is BLATANT censorship at it's worst, and this type of activity affects us ALL, regardless of message content. We are all paying customers of Planet Connect, and we are paying them to perform a specific task...to deliver (route) our mail to the intended recipient. We do NOT pay Planet Connect to censor, monitor, or otherwise interfere with the task of routing mail, and Planet Connect, and/or the individual(s) who represent Planet Connect, by the undertaking of this deed, are in blatent violation of the policies set forth by FidoNet Coordinators, voting in the FidoNet Policy Document, as outlined above. As we all know, FidoNet has its OWN policies and remedies for dealing with "excessively annoying", or otherwise inappropriate routed mail. These too are outlined in FidoNet Policy Document version 4.07. We know this is why we have moderators in each and every conference in the Fido structure, and they are the first in the chain to decide whether or not messages are appropriate for that particualr conference. We are also all aware of the fact that the FLAME conference serves more than one purpose, albeit those reasons are not always outwardly obvious. The FLAME conference provides a very effective means to vent frustrations, in an open-forum, with little restraint put on the participants in regards to manners, topic, etc. The FLAME conference also serves to keep the other more serious and demanding conferences free of just that type of behavior. It is a well known fact that the FLAME conference is a "no-holds-barred" echo, and that the subject matter and mannerisms observed in this echo will no doubt be offensive to some individuals. Simple solution...if it's offensive, don't poll it or read it! I have a strong feeling that somewhere down the line, this has been forgotten. The moderator of the FLAME conference has _not_ found the mail in question to be offensive, or unsuitable for said conference. The moderator (John Clifton) of FLAME has, on some occasions, revoked certain individuals rights to post in said conference. The bottom line here is...Fido has a structured policy document which is to be followed by all participants in said net. This would include, of course, anyone responsible for routing Fido echomail, including all members and representatives of Planet Connect. Blatant violations of Fido policy are being undertaken by Planet Connect, and this _must_ stop now. FidoNews 11-42 Page: 6 17 Oct 1994 Planet Connect is playing a very dangerous game, one which undermines the very roots of freedom of speech, a RIGHT which every American citizen is entitled to, by law. PC does _not_, in this case, stand for Politically Correct, it is nothing more than an enterprise which exists only to make money. That money comes from SysOps like you and me, hard earned money, money I chose to spend to get my echomail to it's destination, _not_ for unauthorised censorship, and _not_ for legislated morality from Planet Connect. We, as users, and paying subscribers, of Planet Connect, must, and _will_, put a stop to this abhorrant behavior. We will not be bullied by a mere routing service. Fido can legislate itself, and always has. This is OUR network, the users made Fido what it is today, and we as users of Fido, including ALL of us associated with Fido, must speak out, and assure that this unauthorized censorship, this unwanted intrusion on OUR privacy, is stopped COMPLETELY, and stopped NOW. This is not a simple individual complaint by one node. Think of it as a class action suit. There are MANY out there who feel as I do on this issue, and there will be MANY more following suit, and voicing their opinion, presenting facts and evidence, and filing formal complaints on behalf of this issue. I do hope you will join us in putting a stop to this, and help give Fido back to the people, where it belongs. If it turns out that the Fido structure itself has "ok'd" this type of activity, and Planet Connect is acting on the demands of said Fido structure, then those in Fido who are responsible for instructing Planet Connect to perform this "service" are in violation of their own Fido Policy Document version 4.07, June 9, 1989, and formal complaints will be filed against the individual(s) responsible. It is _not_ acceptable to usurp the Fido Policy Document for any reason. This document must be voted upon, and ratified to be legitimate, and we all know that that hasn't been done since June 9, 1989. Sincerely, Kevin McCarthy 1:238/470@fidonet FidoNews 11-42 Page: 7 17 Oct 1994 From: The Terminator (1:2805/1) To: Editor (1:1/23) Subject: CENSOR. KEVIN.ZIP Gentlemen: I have obtained a copy of Planet Connect's NOBOGUS.LOG. In ONE 24-hour period they managed to CENSOR 23 FidoNet EchoMail Conferences. I have attached copies of their log for your perusal. At the bottom of this message is a sample extract that I would like published in FidoNews. Thank you very much. Sincerely yours, Brent Hamm Network Echo Coordinator Network 2805 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Msg 8: found FUCK 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Attributes: 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO From: Virginia Scripps at 247/800 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO To: All at 3615/50 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Subject: four-letter words 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO Date: 11 Oct 94 09:48:11 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 1:AREA:FUNNY 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:247/302 8f02e795 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 3:The word cunt -- that word which women seem to hate the most -- has 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 4:a fascinating heritage. I like to think, as Chaucer did, that it 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO ... 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 66: 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 67: * Origin: -=[Community Access]-= 905-732-0770 USR Sportster 28800 (1:247/302) 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 68:SEEN-BY: 247/302 310 800 3615/50 12 Oct 04:21:32 NOBO 69:@PATH: 247/302 800 * 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Msg 9: found ASSHOLE 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Attributes: 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO From: Jack Brannan at 100/602 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO To: Tom Pardue at 3615/50 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Subject: RE: MURDERING HISTORY 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO Date: 10 Oct 94 19:00:11 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 1:AREA:CIVLIB 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:100/255@fidonet.org a5145d14 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 3: >> TP> Jack, when faced by the collective intelligence of 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 4: >> TP> fundamentalists such as you, I must play them game as you 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO ... 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 19:--- Via Silver Xpress V3.02 FidoNews 11-42 Page: 8 17 Oct 1994 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 20:--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff275/a] 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 21: * Origin: Invest Quest, St Louis,Mo 314-644-6747 (1:100/255) 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 22:SEEN-BY: 100/255 602 650 1000/7086 1314/4 2701/2 3615/50 7080/6 12 Oct 04:11:13 NOBO 23:@PATH: 100/255 602 * 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Msg 1: found FUCK 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Attributes: 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO From: Pat Chapman at 387/31 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO To: Dennis James at 3615/50 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Subject: Re: female genital mutil 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO Date: 10 Oct 94 08:27:00 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 1:AREA:FEMINISM 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:387/57.0 2e993314 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 3: -=> Quoting Dennis James to Pat Chapman <=- 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 4: 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO ... 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 25: 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 26:--- Maximus 2.01wb 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 27: * Origin: Avalon: San Antonio's Pagan BBS (210) 308-9579 (1:387/57) 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 28:SEEN-BY: 387/31 32 57 590 697 800 3615/50 12 Oct 04:05:24 NOBO 29:@PATH: 387/57 31 * 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Msg 13: found FUCK 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Attributes: 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO From: Michael Pilon at 243/23 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO To: Guy Murphy at 3615/50 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Subject: CITING SOURCES - 2/2 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO Date: 11 Oct 94 17:44:12 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO ------------------------- 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 1:AREA:DEBATE 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 2:@MSGID: 1:243/23.0 e9b1ff5c 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 3: -=> Quoting Guy Murphy to Lester Garrett <=- 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 4: 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO ... 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 13: 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 14:--- FLAME v1.1 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 15: * Origin: CHANNEL-23 *FidoNet*internet*IGA_Net*ARNet* 613-830-5391 (1:243/23) 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 16:SEEN-BY: 243/22 23 24 37 3615/50 12 Oct 04:07:39 NOBO 17:@PATH: 243/23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Editor-Beings Prelude: While holding his nose, Charles Herriot (1:163/110) submits the latest missive from Doc Logger which was delivered by courier wrapped around a large quantity of polar bear livers. In a postscript, Logger suggests that the inclusions are to be used in some form of ritual involving Fidogods. Roll da flic, Sylvia.... Uncle Bill's Home for Wayward TonTon Macoutes, FidoNews 11-42 Page: 9 17 Oct 1994 Armalite, Argentina S0D 0RF Dear Reverend Visage, I was dismayed that you had ventured to one of the more dangerous parts of the world. While Mr. Bill was sending thousands of troops to correct traffic patterns in Haiti, more people died of gunshot wounds in downtown Washington, D.C. than had died of unnatural causes in the preceding two months of ugliness in Port Au Prince. You have to admire the priorities at work and the Excited States must be positively drooling at the prospect of helping Iraq locate the border markers in Kuwait. I was further dismayed to read in the paper that Prince Charles had sixteen badgers shot on one of his estates. It seems that he was worried that they would somehow pass on TB to his cattle, but the *real* reason must have something to do with the fact that they were poised to write a salacious kiss-n-tell story involving Princess Di. You can't trust badgers, Visage, as I've mentioned on more than a few occasions and its a darned fine thing to see our future monarch doing something other than expressing a desire to live in the trousers of his paramours. Ms. Labamba was positively gushing when she mentioned that the large crate of inflatable Hillary Clinton dolls had arrived from Rick Arnold at Rune's Rag (1:2601/522). Dooya think that if I mentioned Rune's Rag ( a fine electronic publication, available from 1:2601/522) that Rick would send the batteries that appear to be missing from the aforementioned shipment? I hesitate to mention Net250 after you had me followed by trained marksmen armed with Thorazine tipped blowguns, but it appears that our beloved but non-sentient RC, Rick "Bury The Rest of Me At Wounded Knee" Johnston, is about to embark on another act of abject idiocy. It seems that he is about to overrule a policy complaint that was filed and rejected by the NC250. The complaint itself, was so profoundly childish and snivelling that it wouldn't have been taken seriously by a kindergarten teacher, but Rick "The Night of The Living Unread" Johnston has applied his keen jurisprudent mind to the issue. Look for flaming nodenumbers on the Northern horizon as this saga sinks deeper into the slimepit. I understand now, why you were unable to locate the ZC, Bob Satti (cue the plague of frogs), in your rambling through Canada's west. Apparently, Mr. Satti (sacrificing another hamster in deference to the Fidogods) has opined that he will see Nets 163 & 243 force marched to the altar before his term expires. Mercifully, he has also stated that he cannot turn his attention to the divorced Ottawa nets until FidoNews 11-42 Page: 10 17 Oct 1994 the range warfare in Region 13 is subdued. Might I suggest, as a measure of the kind of deep concern that we feel towards these things, that we air freight our four hundred pound Samoan attorney to Region 13 so that their squabbles are prolonged long enough to outlast Mr. Satti's (cue the flood) tenure? On almost the same issue, I note that in the Z1-Election echo, various Fidogods keep citing PeeFour as some sort of Divine Doctrine. It would be unsurpassing rude of me, I suppose, to point out that PeeFour was never ratified, never voted upon, and has all the authority of Cheese Whiz. The fact that PeeFour entrenches the incestuous clubbiness of Fidogods is reason enough to place the document in a position where the sun doesn't shine and someday the elflords who keep invoking it will learn that the sysop peasantry don't need to be "controlled." The Z1_Election denizens are debating whether the secular state of *EC-beings can create their own policy nightmare. They miss the point entirely, in that the more rules they create, the more Fidocriminals they will engender. I must go Visage, your secretary has the kind of bovine gleam in her eye that Rudolph must have had the day he met Bambi, and I have no desire to father any children whose noses glow red in the dark. As a good and decent gesture, I suggest that we send her to the White House where she can become one of Mr. Bill's UnderSecretaries. Her distemper has nothing at all to do with the fact that the Snooz editors refused to honour your expense tab from Washington for the services of "St. Brigitte's All Nude Girl's Tuba Marching Band." I think it was the tubas, Visage, because Don Tees was heard to mutter something about the value of "art." Regards, Doc Logger, 3rd Baseman In The Rye, Holden Caulfield School of Fencing, Shuckmagosh, Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What is the effect of the NET700 case to the world? Your right to international communication is at stake. ----------------------------------------------------- What is the NET700 case? Owing to personal feud between the RC and the NC, the NC was suddenly fired with reasons that the majority of sysops did not accept. A new NC was appointed by the RC and a cleansing exercise started. New NC demanded all sysops to apply for Fidonet membership again, or else be kicked out. The reason: he needs to know the information of all nodes. This is a very bad excuse as the information of all nodes is already in the NET700 nodelist which has been in use for many years satisfactorily. FidoNews 11-42 Page: 11 17 Oct 1994 The present status is that all sysops (about 600) continue to use the existing nodelist and happily communicating with each other under the Fidonet Hong Kong. Only a few (about 30) responded to the new NC, but they still keep the existing nodelist and also happily communicating with all fidonet sysops in Hong Kong. Here comes the ugly abuse of authority. The NC just fielded the 30 odds nodes to the international nodelist. So the world now sees a shrunken Hong Kong net from a prosperous and busy network to a tiny and quiet place of 30 nodes. You may know that Hong Kong is a tiny island in size but a giant in economy and hi-tech communication. How come the 600 sysops who devoted time and money to telecommunication suddenly all committed a fatal crime and were ex-communicated from the world renowned network? Something is definitely wrong. The nucleus of the event is in the RC of Region 61 who brought his personal feud to the world. New NC is his front (probably aka RC). ZC is also stupid enough to be caught in the event without seeing the consequence. Hong Kong sysops are furious. Complaints are being made to ZC and IC. There are also legal actions being planned to sue the NC. This naive guy thinks he can't go to jail for this and claims to be a hero, being a beloved subordinate of a powerful RC and has the power to stand up again 600 others. He doesn't realise that the civil action against him may cost him millions of dollars in the end. As it now stands, NET700 is running smoothly locally. The only damaging thing the NC/RC/ZC have done is the abuse of their authority in manipulating the international nodelist. The IC has to do something to maintain the integrity of this important document which is used by the world. In the meantime, your right to international communication is in stake. Remember when you want to join the wonderful Fidonet to reach the world. Now because of improper management, this Fidonet is in the danger of falling apart. You can see that a main chunk of Hong Kong has been lost. This wonderful city of 600 nodes is largely out of reach to you now. Is there a way to curd this kind of irresponible behaviour of the appointed personnels? Is the information super highway really in need of regulating. Fidonet is a fine example of a well orgainsed network of amateurs. But this things really put people off and make them turn elsewhere. Meanwhile, guys in Hong Kong are still striving to save the net. Demands are being made to the IC for the reinstatment of all Net700 nodes. Whether Fidonet can be healthy again is now in his hand. Raymond Poon (6:700/7 ex-communicated?) FidoNews 11-42 Page: 12 17 Oct 1994 SysOp's vs. 1st Time Callers by Chris Cancilla, (1:375/64) SysOp Patients vs. 1st Time Users All of us, as SysOp's of an established BBS, have run across a user that logged on to our BBS for the first time. But as we watch that user stumble through the menu's, trip over most of the options, and fall flat on their face with a "CONNECTION TERMINATED" report, we wonder what is going on. I, for one, enjoy teaching a new user the "ropes". The other evening I had a user call my system three times. All three times it ended in a dropped carrier. The fourth time I was getting very upset. I broke in with chat mode and asked what was going on. He answered something I was not prepared for. He told me that mine was the first BBS he ever logged on to, and the first time he has ever used a modem. After I asked him kindly to turn off his CAPS LOCK key, and to press >ENTER< twice after he finishes typing, we got some training accomplished. I showed him how to download a better terminal program (TELIX 3.22) than he was using; the terminal he received with his modem. I explained what Zmodem was, compared to the rest of the protocols. I showed him what he needed to know to make the experience enjoyable. After we did all this he told me that he was not alone. His Mom and Dad were sitting there with him. At first they were all getting real frustrated and ready to unplug the computer from the wall. Then I broke in and talked kindly to them. Later his father and I spoke voice. A fairly intelligent man who knows enough about computers to realize he needs to learn more. The father also let me in on a secret; if I had not broke in and assisted them, they were going to not use the modem. But, with my help, they have a very good attitude towards BBS's, SysOp's, modeming, and computers in general. They managed to get the file they wanted all along, a Star Trek text file. I had to call them back voice and get them to call back the BBS again. They needed a way to un-ARJ the file. Although the family was sitting around the computer and learning together, it could have led to a lot of stress. Me, spending a small amount of time assisting and teaching them made it an enjoyable experience. If more SysOp's would look at it in that respect, rather than as "OH GOD....a virgin user!" and ignore them, more people would be better taught on BBSing and user's attitudes would be more positive towards the System Operators. Chris Cancilla FidoNews 11-42 Page: 13 17 Oct 1994 1:375/64 FidoNet 87:6002/7014 TrekNet 244:300/2 AgapeNet --==>> CHRIS <<==-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From tdkcs!hookup!wps.com!tomj The Little Garden, a San Francisco Bay Area Internetwork Computers, Freedom and Privacy '95 Call for Participation Call for Participation - CFP'95 The Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy Sponsored by the ACM SIGCOMM, SIGCAS, SIGSAC and Stanford Law School 28 - 31 March 1995 San Francisco Airport Marriott Hotel, Burlingame, California INVITATION This is an invitation to submit session and topic proposals for inclusion in the program of the Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy. Proposals may be for individual talks, panel discussions, debates, or other presentations in appropriate formats. Proposed topics should be within the general scope of the conference, as outlined below. SCOPE The advance of computer and telecommunications technologies holds great promise for individuals and society. From convenience for consumers and efficiency in commerce to improved public health and safety and increased participation in democratic institutions, these technologies can fundamentally transform our lives. New computer and telecommunications technologies are bringing new meanings to our freedoms to speak, associate, be left alone, learn, and exercise political power. At the same time these technologies pose threats to the ideals of a just, free, and open society. Personal privacy is increasingly at risk from invasion by high-tech surveillance and eavesdropping. The myriad databases containing personal information maintained in the public and private sectors expose private life to constant scrutiny. Political, social, and economic fairness may hinge on ensuring equal access to these technologies, but how, at what cost, and who will pay? Technological advances also enable new forms of illegal activity, posing new problems for legal and law enforcement officials and challenging the very definitions of crime and civil liberties. But technologies used to combat these crimes can threaten the traditional barriers between the individual and the state. Even such fundamental notions as speech, assembly and property are being transformed by these technologies, throwing into question the basic Constitutional protections that have guarded them. Similarly, information knows no borders; as the scope of economies becomes global and as networked communities transcend international boundaries, ways FidoNews 11-42 Page: 14 17 Oct 1994 must be found to reconcile competing political, social, and economic interests in the digital domain. The Fifth Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy will assemble experts, advocates and interested people from a broad spectrum of disciplines and backgrounds in a balanced public forum to explore and better understand how computer and telecommunications technologies are affecting freedom and privacy in society. Participants will include people from the fields of computer science, law, business, research, information, library science, health, public policy, government, law enforcement, public advocacy, and many others. Topics covered in previous CFP conferences include: Personal Information and Privacy Access to Government Information Computers in the Workplace Electronic Speech, Press and Assembly Governance of Cyberspace Role of Libraries on the Information Superhighway Law Enforcement and Civil Liberties Privacy and Cryptography Free Speech and the Public Communications Network We are also actively seeking proposals with respect to other possible topics on the general subject of computers, freedom and privacy. Some new topics we are considering include: Telecommuting: Liberation or Exploitation? Courtesy, and the Freedom to be Obnoxious Commercial Life on the Net How Does the Net Threaten Government Power? Universal Access to Network Services The Meaning of Freedom in the Computer Age Online Interaction and Communities Government-Mandated Databases PROPOSAL SUBMISSION All proposals should be accompanied by a position statement of at least one page, describing the proposed topic. Proposals for panel discussions, debates and other multi-person presentations should include a list of proposed participants and session chair. Proposals should be sent to: CFP'95 Proposals Stanford Law and Technology Policy Center Stanford Law School Stanford, California 94305-8610 or by email to: cfp95@forsythe.stanford.edu with the word "Proposal" in the subject line. Proposals should be submitted as soon as possible to allow thorough consideration for FidoNews 11-42 Page: 15 17 Oct 1994 inclusion in the formal program. The deadline for submissions is 1 November 1994. STUDENT PAPER COMPETITION Full time students are invited to enter the student paper competition. Winners will receive a scholarship to attend the conference and present their papers. Papers should not exceed 2,500 words and should examine how computer and telecommunications technologies are affecting freedom and privacy in society. All papers should be submitted to Professor Gary T. Marx by 20 November 1994. Authors may submit their papers either by sending them as straight text via email to: Gary.Marx@colorado.edu or by sending six printed copies to: Professor Gary T. Marx University of Colorado Campus Box 327 Boulder, Colorado 80309-0327 (303) 492-1697 Submitters should include the name of their institution, degree program, and a signed statement affirming that they are a full-time student at their institution and that the paper is an original, unpublished work of their own. INFORMATION For more information on the CFP'95 program and advance registration, as it becomes available, write to: CFP'95 Information Stanford Law and Technology Policy Center Stanford Law School Stanford, California 94305-8610 or send email to: cfp95@forsythe.stanford.edu with the word "Information" in the subject line. THE ORGANIZERS General Chair -------------- Carey Heckman Stanford Law School Stanford Law & Technology Policy Center Stanford, CA 94305-8610 415-725-7788 (voice) 415-725-1861 (fax) ceh@leland.stanford.edu To discuss potential CFP'95 speakers, topics, and formats, and to receive FidoNews 11-42 Page: 16 17 Oct 1994 additional CFP'95 information, subscribe to the CFP95 list. Send to cfp95@lists.stanford.edu a plain text message consisting of subscribe cfp95. Program Committee --------------------- Sheri Alpert Internal Revenue Service Judi Clark ManyMedia Kaye Caldwell Software Industry Coalition Esther Dyson EDventure Holdings Mike Godwin Electronic Frontier Foundation Peter Harter National Public Telecomputing Network Lance J. Hoffman George Washington University Ellen Kirsh America OnLine Bruce R. Koball Motion West Gary T. Marx University of Colorado Mitch Ratcliffe Digital Media Marc Rotenberg Electronic Privacy Information Center Deborah Runkle American Association for the Advancement of Science Barbara Simons USACM Ross Stapleton-Gray Georgetown University Glenn Tenney Fantasia Systems Jeff Ubois Author and Consultant FidoNews 11-42 Page: 17 17 Oct 1994 J. Kent Walker, Jr. U.S. Department of Justice Affiliations are listed for identification. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vern Faulkner (1:340/44) To: Editors (1:221/192) Subject: Logical Deduction I looked at my BBS history a few days back. I realized I'd been in this hobby (hobby? You mean, people are supposed to BBS and FIDOnet for.. fun? Oh dear.) for quite some time. Normally, I'd try and steer myself away from all the political hoo-hah that happens, especially the stuff that gets draped over the near-dead corpse of the FIDOnews. However, Mr. Hamm's fine diatrabes in the last issue really caught my eye. Not being one without an opinion, I expressed it. Then, having so expressed, I bit my lip, and wrote it all down for you people. Please - do try to remember this is a hobby net... Anyhoo.. here's my thoughts on this whole kerfuffle... 1) Since when did a tax deduction automatically indicate commercial use? I know that I have been, in the past, able to write off some of the rent on my home in my personal taxes. Does this mean, that *in my jurisdiction*, I was running a business in my home? I don't think so. 2) There is nothing to prevent systems of a commercial nature, ie: pay bbs systems, from using FIDOnet as part of the package presented to users. 3) IF a system is running in a commercial environment, ie: they are a pay BBS, or operated on commercial premises, they may well be required to (a) register software as commercial, and (b) pay business rates on their telephone lines. In the event of (a) and (b) above, then very certainly, the costs accumulated on the telephone are tax-deductable in the course of business. In no way does this make the amateur network of FIDO subject to commercial influence - if so, then take a look at the vast number of commercial systems out there! I can think of at least two in my net alone. What they do behind their mailers is their business... not mine, nor FIDO's either. 4) If Mr. Terminator (sigh) claims that the ANTI_VIRUS echo is a walking ad for a commercial product, may I turn you to the Remote Access support echo, the proboard support echo, the front-door support echo, the pkware support echo - in short, having an echo devoted entirely to the use and maintenance of one commercial/shareware product does not, in my mind constitute commercial operation. It constitutes a support echo for any of the myriad programs out there. FidoNews 11-42 Page: 18 17 Oct 1994 5) I'd like to remind Mr. Hamm that he is likely using commercial software at some stage of his BBS operation, be it MS-DOS, 4DOS, OS/2, Unix, or Windows. Does that mean, by merely mentioning what operating system someone uses in a message, they are supporting that Operating System and ergo, blatantly commercial? I think not - otherwise the next nodelist will have about sixteen entries in it, worldwide. Vern Faulkner, Fox and Dragon Inn, Victoria, B.C. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Den Whitton (3:623/632) To: Madam Emilia (1:221/192) Subject: Animals in Fido Dear Madam, In addition to the animals mentioned in your survey I count 5 Aardvarks and 10 entire zoos. Cheers Den Sysop, The Zoo BBS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roger Nie (6:700/200) To: Editor (1:1/23) Subject: Letter from Net700 to IC. Hello George, As you should know about the case of Net700, and I want to condemn my Zone Co-ordinator about this case as he was acknowledged and support the wrong decision of R61C and the new appointed Net700C. As I believe, the re-engineering process should be, provide a take over process from the former NC to him, and there should be nothing changed to the lower level. But the new appointed NC, failed to take-over the job from the former NC, and try to remove all nodes in order to get the information from us. After a meeting of NET700, we confirmed that we deeply condemn our Coordinators use this dirty tricks to win his power. And for this case, we tried to send netmail to our Z6C, Honlin Lue, but he refused all netmail which was written in English, and willing to answer all the complain in Chinese in the Chinese echomail. He is trying to escape the official language in FidoNET in order to bend on the RC/NC. Please take a look on the following translation from his mail, FidoNews 11-42 Page: 19 17 Oct 1994 Date : Sep 27 '94, 01:04 From : Honlin Lue 6:720/303.0 To : Hilary Luk Subj : about net-rule of Fido. In a message of , Hilary Luk (6:700/474@fidonet.org) writes: HL> You said you would support the RC you appointed, even if he made mistake. If he made mistake, I will ask him to correct, and will forgive him. Date : Sep 29 '94, 02:52 From : Honlin Lue 6:720/303.0 To : Goodwin Yuen Subj : China In a message of , Goodwin Yuen (6:700/375.2@fidonet.org) writes: GY>Neither of any post, Policy4 haven't give him power to dissolve and GY>rebuild the whole networkˇI GY>(He can only remove those nodes which were downed above 2 weeks.) This is correct. Policy4 does not give NC any power. If it affects your right, you don't have to accept it. But Policy4 said out-going NC will provide information of nodes to the new NC. If the new NC delete any node because he does not have sufficient information, this is understandable. We only communicate through e-mail. If the identity cannot be confirmed, we can't be sure who is the writer of the mail. An extreme situation is when a person is NC and he made a number of false nodes. Or a few dozens phoney BBS. Although the telephone numbers in the nodelist is real, who can ascertain that the sysop of the BBS is real. NC not just can delete nodes which have been down for two weeks. He can also delete BBS who made false nodelist or do not use the latest nodelist. As I know, Policy4 request us to use the update nodelist. But our ZC said that if we don't use the update nodelist, our node can be removed. It is true that we have responsibilty to use the update nodelist. But not forced us to use the latest otherwise our node will be removed. And ALL the NET700 nodes in the nodelist were real and offical. ZC cannot doubt about the nodelist's reality. Also when his RC made a mistake, he will forgive him, but when nodes at his lower level made a mistake, he will dismiss him. It is obviously to see that our ZC is fully protect his appointed staffs either he is doing something wrong, like dismiss ALL nodes in NET700. FidoNews 11-42 Page: 20 17 Oct 1994 I think you also agree that we, operating a BBS, is basically for interest. But now our Co-ordinators treat this as a game for politics and power. We hate this intention and condemn all levels of our Co-ordinators. Besides for NET700, all the product support site, which was based on NET700 was also removed from the Zone list. Like mine 6:6/108 and 6:6/109, the Asia support site for QuickBBS and ALLfix. I fully believe that the Z6C/R61C/N700C parties has an intention to remove all HONG KONG FidoNET nodes neither it is NET700 or not, and then accept those who will not oppose, or support their dictatorship management, back to the nodelist. I fully hope that you can leave us a mail, at least we can see your decision in NET700 very soon. You decision will safe about 600 active nodes, 300 private nodes in NET700, a network which the size is competitive with a state in US. Rgds Alex Lee 6:700/126 6:700/137 6:6/108 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409 Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca sylvia -- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 128 Church St. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2S4 FidoNews 11-42 Page: 21 17 Oct 1994 max & Don voice: (519) 570-3137 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1994 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address, or trade for copy of your 'zine. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. "the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"... -- END ----------------------------------------------------------------------