F I D O N E W S Volume 16, Number 48 29 Nov 1999 +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet community | "FidoNews" | | _ | 1-717-732-6820 1:270/720 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720 | | | (*) | \ )) | DougM@paonline.com | | |__U__| / \// | | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+ (__) (__)(__) (__) (__) (__) (oo) + (oo)(oo) = (oo) (oo) (oo) \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ You can cownt on Fidonews... Table of Contents 1. ARTICLES ................................................. 1 Keeping Echomail in perspective .......................... 1 Ukraine CoModerator disconnects Moderator ................ 2 2. COLUMNS .................................................. 4 Fidonet-related sites .................................... 4 God's Work ............................................... 7 ECHO TALK - Fidonews is American-Oriented ................ 8 3. NET HUMOR ................................................ 10 My Good Deed ............................................. 10 In Days of Old ........................................... 10 4. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 12 The Milky Way ............................................ 12 5. FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 13 Masthead ................................................. 13 FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 1 29 Nov 1999 ================================================================= ARTICLES ================================================================= Keeping Echomail in perspective * By Joe Jared (1:103/301) joejared@osirusoft.com In order to understand the failure of echomail we must also look at the success of Usenet newsgroups. Our audience of 10 years ago has gone to newsgroups, and fidonet's survival is dependent on finding new ways of doing things. A few statistics about the delivery of echomail. Between a few of the major distribution systems there are close to 800 echoes, roughly speaking. All totaled, about 3 megabytes of uncompressed mail flow through the backbone. Of these echoes, close to 200 of these echoes have had zero traffic in the past 30 days, and some have had no traffic in months. In my own logs, the following are the top 10 areas: EchoMail Traffic ================ Period: 1999-10-26 to 1999-11-21 AREA NAME TOTAL AVERAGE TRAFFIC REC.ARTS.COMICS.STRIPS 1958 72 2.37% ! POLITICS 2162 80 2.62% REC.AQUARIA.MARINE.REEFS 2207 81 2.68% ! HOLYSMOKE 2339 86 2.84% REC.AUTOS.TECH 2779 102 3.37% ! COMP.DCOM.XDSL 2922 108 3.54% ! COMP.LANG.C 3541 131 4.29% ! REC.RADIO.CB 3919 145 4.75% ! REC.MOTORCYCLES 5639 208 6.84% ! REC.AUTOS.SPORT.NASCAR 6020 222 7.30% ! Note that there is no central theme to the above list, except that political and religious discussions were the only things that were able to make it into the top 10 areas. Looking at my nightly logs from my own news server confirms that the top listed gated newsgroups are also reflected in the list. There is no bias, and occasional posts in 1backbone also reflect this fact. Excluding newsgroups, for the usenet impaired, and simply going with echoes, the "winners" last month in volume were... Z1_BACKBONE 585 21 0.71% WIN95 642 23 0.78% ABORTION 655 24 0.79% FILK 821 30 1.00% MEMORIES 825 30 1.00% Z1C 853 31 1.03% FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 2 29 Nov 1999 ECHOLIST 876 32 1.06% FN_SYSOP 941 34 1.14% OS2 1054 39 1.28% COOKING 1250 46 1.52% LINUX 1312 48 1.59% FUNNY 1451 53 1.76% POLITICS 2162 80 2.62% HOLYSMOKE 2339 86 2.84% Given the above statistics, I personally am left to wonder what would happen if we collectively spent as much energy improving fidonet as we did fighting with each other. If something isn't done to reduce or eliminate unnecessary control and bickering, we will likely become a network of administrators, with nothing to administer. As we are now, we're truely unimportant in the big scheme of mail movers, excluding the fact that this is just a hobby. In our prime, it wasn't uncommon to see 10000+ messages per day. We've shrunk, and yet Usenet distribution has increased to well over 20GB/day and when including binaries, over 60GB+/day. In one area, I see our network becoming more anarchistic each day, which contrary to the stigma of the word, is a good thing. When people get truely sick of the bickering and groping for power, alternatives are available. The fidonet via internet list is primarily intended to provide these alternatives, and one I have found to work well for many. The war isn't over mind you, as suspicions of Jim Balcom's known Z1B bias becomes more visible. What neither Jim, the NAB, nor the Z1B appear to realize is that none of them individually are all that important. The ONLY important thing about echomail is that it gets distributed efficiently, and with few incidents. The personalities behind the tossers don't mean squat to downlink systems, except when they find a message from one of the personalities. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FidoNews is supposed to be a newsletter of the whole Fido, but it looks like it's only American. So... Here's a short article on current evevts in 2:463. Comod Disconnects Mod For Unwarranted Moderation. Ruslan Kondratskiy, the comoderator of KIEV.TALKS, got his power together with another comod Al Yatsenko, and the moderator Juliy Chirkov on June'99 election. In some months, Juliy Chirkov had to quit Fido and appointed Al Yatsenko a temporary moderator. Ruslan agreed with the fact of the appointment, but doubted Al's full power. Still the echo lived its life, Ruslan put moderatorials, Al just supervised a bit. But a lot of people started complaining on FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 3 29 Nov 1999 Ruslan's activity to NE463C, because Comod started punishing for "numerous crossposts" or "non-permitted forward". NE463C promised to start new elections. Meanwhile, Al, the officially appointed "temporary moderator", published a moderatorial letter, proclaiming amnesty for all, punished by Ruslan. Then the Comod... put moderatorial [!] (disconnection) to Al for "unwarranted moderation". The Mod answered by putting [!] to Ruslan. Echo couldn't stop laughing. The conflict was solved by Vadim Serkov, the NE463C, who took KIEV.TALKS under his personal control till the elections. Andrei Besedin with best wishes from Kiev, Ukraine. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 4 29 Nov 1999 ================================================================= COLUMNS ================================================================= ! = New entries this week ? = not responding ?? = unknown content, doesn't look like fidonet . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- . | FIDONET-RELATED SITES | ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- ' Last update: Nov 21, 1999 FidoNet Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML] ftp://sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS) FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/ General: http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html List server: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html http://www.tnl-online.com/andy/rgn10.htm Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/ Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/ Net 2410: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/net2410/ Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm Net 264: http://www.net264.org/ Region 14: Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/ Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/ Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/ Region 19: http://members.home.net/hbh3/r19 Net 124: http://www.startext.net/np/net124 http://texoma.net/~flv Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130 Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/ Zone 1 Elist http://members.xoom.com/echolist/ Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish) Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish) Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German) Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German) Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/ Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French) Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German) ? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian) Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish) FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 5 29 Nov 1999 REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/ Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/ Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English) Region 42: http://www.fido.cz Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian) Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian) Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian) Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English) Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian) ?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian) Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org Zone 4: Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese) Region 90: Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish) Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/ Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html (Chinese) Fidonet Via Internet Hubs a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email address. The email is translated as follows firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea. v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com | email address or Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed | Basic Rate -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------ Zone 1 | | | | 10/3 @ Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | T1? | $??/$10 12/12 | Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo. 13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo. 103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL | n/c 103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP | aDSL | n/c 103/328 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k | n/c 105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c 105/72 @ Larry James | FTP | aDSL | $5/$15 mo. 106/1 @ Matt Bedynek | BinkP, FTP | 128k | $5 mo 106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL | n/c 140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP | T3 | $5/$16 167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c 211/417 @ Korombos | BinkD,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c 246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c 270/101 @ George Peace | FTP | 6mbps | $20mo. 271/140 @ Tom Barstow | UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 6 29 Nov 1999 280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo. 342/3 | Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c 345/0 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP | T1 | n/c 396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1 | $10/mo 396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr 2401/305 | Peter Rocca | FTP,UUE | T1 | unkn 2424/101 | Kari Suomela | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1 | n/c 2604/104 | Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo 3613/2 @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE | 28.8 | n/c 2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+ | n/c 2624/306 @ D. Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c 3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c 3639/93 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP | 128K+ | n/c 3651/9 | Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6 3803/1 @ Ben Ritchey | UUE | 56k | n/c -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 2 | 20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c 31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c 203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c 221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c 236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c 246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c 284/800 | Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c 292/626 | Filip Ruymen | Binkp, UUE | 128K+ | n/c 292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c 301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | ??? | n/c 332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c 335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c 335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c 344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c 346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c 382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c 406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c 406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c 423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c 464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c 465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c 469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c 480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c 2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c 2446/301 | Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c 2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn 5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c 5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c 5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 3 633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c 640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c 774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c -------------------------------------------------------------- Zone 4 905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 7 29 Nov 1999 902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c -- * FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol * VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various) * UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks ---------------------------------------------- Fidonet oriented news servers news.osirusoft.com (US west coast) ? agnese.fidoitalia.net (Italy) news.tardis.net Fidonet oriented chat rooms. room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays irc.isonline.com irc.killaz-r-us.com irc.korombos.org ---------------------------------------------- Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com, and complaints to jarhead@osirusoft.com . ----------------------------------------------------------------- God's Work In the beginning there was Aristotle, And objects at rest tended to remain at rest, And objects in motion tended to come to rest, And God saw that is was boring. Then God created Newton, And objects at rest tended to remain at rest, And objects in motion tended to remain in motion, And energy was conserved, and momentum was conserved, and matter was conserved, And God saw that is was conservative. Then God created Einstein, And everything was relative, And fast things became short, And straight things became curved, And the universe was filled with inertial frames, And God saw that it was relatively general, but some saw it as especially relative. ---------------------------------------unknown FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 8 29 Nov 1999 Then God created Fidonet, And there was the principle, And the principle was Policy 4.07, And all things were quantified, But some things were still relative, And God saw that it was confusing. Then God created an Election Guide, As an election would/should unify, And he would have peace in theory, And all would be as one, rosy and merry. But it was the seventh day and God rested! Meanwhile the old Elflords did their work, Screaming Pee Four forever more, We will reign no matter the pain, The nominations , the seconds, the acceptances... Don't really mean a damn thing, not until Old policy 4.07 is finally slain!!! Ol'wdb extension on God's Work, author unknown ----------------------------------------------------------------- . -- -- -- -- -- ECHO TALK -- -- -- -- -- . | Food for thought from Fido's echomail. | | Purloined without permission by D Myers | ` -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- -- -- -- -- -- ' Fidonews is American-Oriented This week's Echo Talk column is drawn from FIDONEWS, the echo to talk about this newsletter. The author, Jodi Crisp, wasn't the first one to comment on the subject (as can be seen from the quotes she included), but her message drew the most response... including one from Andrei Besedin who's article appears in this issue. --------------- My sweetest friend, 17 Nov 99 14:14, Matt Bedynek wrote to Malcolm Miles: MM>> And anyone outside Zone 1 found it utterly boring. MB> Not that I care for political stuff, but how come other zones MB> don't submit articles of any type? I would actually like to know MB> whats going on in other zones (not polically), but general stuff. I have found that Fidonews does seem to be very America -oriented. I found it interesting to read about a bit of the political stuff, but after a while it did go on a bit- i mean, maybe it's interesting to who it is relevant to, but it would be nice to see articles from other countries sometimes at least. FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 9 29 Nov 1999 Love and other grievous bodily harm, jodiiiiiiiiiiiiiii -!- FMail 1.22 ! Origin: jc1198@ecs.soton.ac.uk (2:440/226.6) --------------- Though Fidonews isn't intended to be Zone 1 oriented, I've got to admit that this is the result. I can think of several reasons for this: Fidonews was started here at a time when the other zones didn't exist; not all countries speak English as a first language... But there's one premptive reason for the Zone 1 orientation - there just aren't too many contributions to the Snooze from other zones. Even when Henk Wolsink published from Zone 6, I was often the sole contributor... and I just don't have the sophistication to supply an international orientation. I've never lived outside the states of Pennsylvania and New Jersey in the Eastern United States. But then, my own lack of international orientation is easily overcome... all it takes is input from sysops in other zones. As a matter of fact, I've tried soliciting from other zones, but without much success. I kinda hope Jodi takes up the invitation expressed in the FIDONEWS echo to write some articles herself. I have a feeling her "Love and other grievous bodily harm" is a more powerful incentive than any *I* could offer :) ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 10 29 Nov 1999 ================================================================= NET HUMOR ================================================================= My Good Deed Thanks to Roy Reed rcreedv@juno.com A guy arrives at the pearly gates, waiting to be admitted. St. Peter is reading through the Big Book to see if the guy's name is written in it. After several minutes, St. Peter closes the book, furrows his brow, and says, "I'm sorry, I don't see your name written in the Book." "How current is your copy?" he asks. "I get a download every ten minutes." St. Peter replies, "Why do you ask?" "I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I was always the stubborn type. It was not until my death was imminent that I cried out to God, so my name probably hasn't arrived to your copy yet." "I'm glad to hear that, "Pete says, "but while we're waiting for the update to come through, can you tell me about a really good deed that you did in your life?" The guys thinks for a moment and says, "Hmmm, well there was this one time when I was driving down a road and I saw a group of biker gang members harassing this poor girl. I slowed down, and sure enough, there they were, about 20 of them harassing this poor woman. Infuriated, I got out my car, grabbed a tire iron out of my trunk, and walked up to the leader of the gang. He was a huge guy; 6-foot-4, 260 pounds, with a studded leather jacket and a chain running from his nose to his ears. As I walked up to the leader, the bikers formed a circle around me and told me to get lost or I'd be next." "So I ripped the leader's chain out of his face and smashed him over the head with the tire iron. Then I turned around and yelled to the rest of them, 'Leave this poor innocent girl alone! You're all a bunch of SICK, deranged animals! Go home before I really teach you a lesson in PAIN!'" St. Peter, duly impressed, says "Wow! When did this happen" "About three minutes ago." ----------------------------------------------------------------- In Days of Old... Thanks to Ol'WDB King Arthur was in Merlin's laboratory where the good wizard was showing him his latest invention. It was a chastity belt, except it FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 11 29 Nov 1999 had a rather large hole in the most obvious place. "Why this is no good, Merlin!" the king exclaimed, "Just look at this opening. How is this supposed to protect m'lady, the Queen?" "Ah, sire, just observe," said Merlin. He then selected his most worn out wand, one that he was going to discard anyway. He inserted it in the gaping aperture of the chastity belt whereupon a small guillotine blade came down and cut it neatly in two. "Merlin, you are a genius!" exclaimed the grateful monarch. "Now I can leave, knowing that my Queen is fully protected." After putting Guinevere in the device, King Arthur then set out upon his Quest. Several years passed until he returned to Camelot. Immediately he assembled all of his knights in the courtyard and had them drop their trousers for an informal 'short arm' inspection. Sure enough, each and every one of them was either amputated or damaged in some way. All of them, except Sir Galahad. "Sir Galahad," exclaimed King Arthur."My one and only true knight. Only you among all the nobles have been true to me. What is it in my power to grant you? Name it and it is yours!" But, alas, Sir Galahad was speechless. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 12 29 Nov 1999 ================================================================= COMIX IN ASCII ================================================================= * . . , . . * . . . * \ / , (__) , , - * - ( . | . / \ , . \/ . - - . . / \\ , | , * * / /\\ . /\\ / . . * . / \\ . . _|_ , . , / , * | . , . * , . . . , . . . * . The Milky Way ----------------------------------------------------------------- FIDONEWS 16-48 Page 13 29 Nov 1999 ================================================================= FIDONEWS INFORMATION ================================================================= Masthead + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, DougM@paonline.com | | Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org | | Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, jarhead@osirusoft.com | | (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) | | Columnist: Warren D. Bonner, 1:103/401, wdbonner@pacbell.net | | (Warren uses the pen name "Ol'WDB") | | | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince | | Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, | | Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink | | | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA 94141, and are used with permission. Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet. Fidonews is Copyright (C) 1999 by Douglas Myers, though authors retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinion expressed by the authors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication and distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to Douglas Myers at one of his addresses above. The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS. These sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator. The current and past issues are also available from the following sources: + -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- + | | | Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:270/720, 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 | | ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ | | ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ | | http://www.fidonews.org | | email subscription: majordomo@fidonews.org | | (subject: help body: list) | | ftp mail: ftpmail@fidonews.org (subject: help) | | | + -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- + -----------------------------------------------------------------